Sure, how about if wearing the mask just disables all of those comments? As in the popular http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/746
Is it possible to have that kind of thing run dynamically in game, dependent on the player's choice of outfit? (sounds silly/difficult, but i think it would help. You can see why it would help RP if they didn't know who you are)
The total silence would be easily justified by everyone's fear of strangers but the fact that your friends/followers recognise you when you speak to them could be because you let them know it's you...

That's a point, is there any sense of "guilty by association" that would cause problems with followers? i.e. if you attack a guard, and kill a few with the help of your follower, then run off and put on a mask while hidden, upon your return will guards attack your follower? Or do guards only care about the actions of the Dragonborn (plus the dragonborn in a mask )

Good to hear that contextual functionality will be in soon.

Now a suggestion if I may: this is fairly unrelated to the mechanics you've built so far but it still fits with the idea of sneak tools. What I'm proposing is giving certain destruction spells a sneak bonus and maybe other secondary effects IF they hit a target who has not spotted you. In particular:

Rune spells; rune spells work like magical traps and setting traps is a great ressource for stealth characters. They could have a x2 sneak bonus plus ability to stagger/knock down oblivious NPCs
Ice spike/Icy spear are pretty much like magical arrows. They could have a x2 sneak bonus too as normal arrows have.

Opinions?

Also:


Seconding this. This would be perfect!

Pretty sure that anything your followers do ends up being on your head. It's like if you command a follower to attack a guard, both of you will get attacked and you get a bounty on your head.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sf3BINEv0Ds&feature=g-all-u

Congrats!

The mask does not have a new model, I'm a scripter, not a modeller/texturer It's just a copy of the masked Dark Brotherhood hood, and the male version of it actually uses the female model because the male model is bugged in vanilla skyrim and has no mask (it does seem to clip a little bit around the neck though)... and actually I'm not sure whether it works at all on beast races, might want to check that before I upload

As for the controls, yes that sounds about right, only difference is that Sneak + Dagger drawn = throat slit, because you can only slit throats with daggers, not just any weapon.


No I think changing that dynamically wouldn't be too difficult at all, should work About followers, I think all of their crimes already get blamed on you anyway in vanilla skyrim. The only ''issue'' with this is that I think that if you are wearing a mask and your followers aren't and they commit crimes for you, their crimes will get blamed on your mask, which means that the mask you're wearing is actually also hiding their identities. Not entirely realistic, but probably the best solution from a gameplay point of view anyway.


Hmmm not sure.. aren't there already some mods which give sneak multipliers to destruction? Either way, I think this suggestion is a bit more in the category of balancing/tweaking existing gameplay, and I'm currently much more interested in adding brand new gameplay. I might still get to tweaking/balancing later on when I'm happy with the new possibilities though, but that's where my priorities currently are.


Thanks Just checked up with the author though because I was afraid there was some bug because the AI wasn't reacting properly to the crimes they were obviously witnessing, but he used console commands to prevent that to make filming the new features easier, so no problems with AI either

New version with masks scheduled to be released within a couple of hours btw...

Perhaps you could request one of the talented artests out there to make you a few models?

I personally like the half mask, that only covers the lower portion of the face. Kinda like how the mask of the DBH or the Nightingale hood does, but without the hood.

Not sure if I need to request someone to make an entirely new mask, I'm fairly sure I've already seen some cool looking masks out there, and there are a few already in vanilla skyrim. Either way, for these beta releases I do not yet care too much about having immersive ways to obtain masks, and the version I'm going to release tonight will actually have a mask magically pop up inside your inventory. I realise this can be done much better, but that's why I still call it a beta version First want to make sure all the scripts work fine and with a complex system like skyrim's crime system I can't test it all by myself anymore, when I'm satisfied with how everything works I'll make a proper immersive way of obtaining masks and have multiple different masks etc.

Just uploaded version 0.20 BETA. Changelog:

- Knockdowns and throat slits will now be the default action when the conditions required
apply. If you still want to pickpocket in these conditions you will first have to sheathe
your weapon/lower your fists. No more confirmation menus, but smoother gameplay.
- Implemented identity-concealing masks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
BETA FEEDBACK I'M ESPECIALLY INTERESTED IN
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Obviously, I'm interested in any and all feedback and constructive criticism you guys can provide. However,
there are also a few points I especially want to hear about:

- Is the change from having a pop-up menu asking you whether you want to slit throats or knock unconscious
to doing it automatically when the conditions are right an improvement? Or do you sometimes accidentally
execute one of these moves when you really just wanted to pickpocket?

- Should unconscious NPCs remain unconscious for a shorter amount of time? Or a longer amount of time?

- Do the masks always work as expected? Are there any situations where (un)equipping masks results in an
unjustified addition to bounties?

- Should NPCs remember that you wore the mask after detecting you for a shorter amount of time? Or a longer
amount of time?

- What do you guys think of the plans mentioned in Future Plans? I'm not looking for feedback like
''good idea!'' or ''bad idea!'' here since they're things I'm interested in and will (try to) do eventually
anyway, just wondering whether you guys already see some issues which I'm forgetting about or if you have
any good additions to these plans.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
BETA FEEDBACK I'M ESPECIALLY INTERESTED IN
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Small piece of feedback just based on the description:

To kill sleeping NPCs you say the player...'will execute 3 powerful strikes in rapid succession in the direction you are looking'.
Wouldn't it be fancier to use the impale killcam that is triggered against kneeling targets? It just fits amazingly well and keeps things stylish.

Killcams always have exactly the same animation for both player and victim, and if the starting animation of an actor does not correspond with his current state, the killcam doesn't care and just puts him instantly in the animation he wants. Generally this isn't noticeable because killcams are conditionalized in such a way that killcams where you put your sword in someone's back only occur when standing behind someone, etc.

What this means for your suggestion is that if I ran such a killcam on a sleeping target, the NPC would instantly stop sleeping and be in a kneeling position (probably either on top of the bed with the player flying in the air next to the bed, or the NPC also next to the bed instead of on top of it) as the killcam plays. So no.. I'm afraid that wouldn't look too good

Just seems overpowered at the moment. I was expecting something like being able to throw objects to get people's attention.

@Borgut: oh crap...thanks for the explanation. I was unaware of that little detail. Pity though, the impale animation would have looked beautiful if only executed by the player. Tomorrow I'll get home and have the chance to install your mod. I'll be sure to give you proper (and this time hopefully useful) feedback.

So are all these context options brought up by pressing Activate on the NPC? All my original moves are there to perform, but essentially you have a couple more options besides pickpocketing, correct? If this is soon getting rid of the menus then I can only see it happen one way as mentioned (takedown = unarmed, pickpocket = hands down, assassinate = weapon drawn), which would be fluid and improve upon normal gameplay.

I havent gotten the Beta yet, but something i was thinking about that i was inspired by from Reneer.

What if when your spotted wearing the mask guards will follow you? Some one who is trying to conceal their identity cant be up to any good right? In Reneer's guard overhaul mod if a guard spotted you sneaking they would follow you under the same basis that if your sneaking around you must be up to something.

That would make it more challenging to have the mask, especially if you take it off to get them to leave you alone and they see you then they know you are the guy wearing that mask. So any crimes done that are witnessed with you wearing that mask could still have the bounty placed on you.

That's pretty much how it works, though a few corrections needed:

knocking unconscious = unarmed + standing behind the target
throat slit = dagger drawn (NOT other weapons) + standing behind the target
pickpocket = all other cases

Killing sleeping targets still has the pop-up menu but I actually forgot why I did that so I might make that context dependent too...


I'm not sure yet whether they should always be following you around through the entire town, they're supposedly stationed in important positions and can't just leave their posts to follow anyone who happens to be wearing a mask around. It definitely would be cool if they somehow keep an extra eye out on you though, not sure yet how I want this to work exactly..

I was mainly talking about guards that patrol the city. Ones stationed at the gates or at strategic locations that dont patrol should stay. Maybe ad a script to the ones that only patrol? that should also work with mods like Open Cities too right?

I've currently implemented something in my version (which I'll probably upload somewhere tomorrow) which does not involve any following around but NPCs will look at you more often. It works like this:

- All NPCs* will look at you if you're wearing a mask and they are able to look at you without having to turn their body (they'll only turn their neck a little bit) if they did see you walking around and wearing a mask (they will not suddenly look at you if you're sneaking undetected behind them). This is not just guards, but also civilians, since they too are afraid of you.
- If you get very close to any NPC while wearing a mask, and if that NPC is a guard or if you have your weapon drawn or are sneaking, they'll get especially suspicious and will keep looking at you, even if that means they have to walk backwards to walk to their current destination.

(the following is related to someone else's suggestion, not yours anymore )
- All NPCs** will refuse to talk to you if you have your mask equipped. They'll still in rare occasions say something (like if you bump into them, they'll still say ''Hey! Be careful!'') but they won't engage in dialogue anymore so you cannot talk to them about quests or acces vendors.

* When it comes to looking at actors, the only exceptions are NPCs the player is married to, the player's followers, the player's housecarls, and members of the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild (it does not matter if the player is also actually a member of those factions or not, these people do not care about other criminals walking around with masks)

** When it comes to refusing dialogue, in addition to the above exceptions, guards are also excluded. The most important reason for this is that it's easier for me to script because this way they will still be able to enter dialogue with you if they want to arrest you and I do not need to keep this in mind. I suppose it also kind of makes sense though, because guards aren't intimidated too quickly.

That sounds just as good Borgut, awesome idea!

this looks intersting, i'll keep an eye on it for whne i start playing a nseaky type.

What about adding maces to the knock out category?

No. What about adding maces to the break legs and pay up category?

I might allow maces to knock out later too... but only under one condition: noone will ask me to lower the mace's damage dealt when knocking out If players are stupid enough to attempt knocking someone out with 100 sneaking and 100 one-handed skill and a Daedric Mace, they should realise the hit might accidentally turn out to be fatal

why is daggers favored?My thief uses swords should i not be allowed to get into the fun because i use swords....ive seen cut throat animations with my swords.Im using sneak tweak that you recommended seems realistic.

Agreed 100% with this.

If this can be incorporated without the need for a dialogue box, this would be amazing.

Hmm yes maybe I should allow swords too...


It already is in version 0.20 BETA (which is currently the latest uploaded file, but will probably upload 0.30 BETA tonight)