[Relz] Sneaking Detection Recalibrated (#8)

Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:05 pm

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Current version: v.4.5.0, as of 2012/04/26
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Latest News:
I'm gunning for FILE OF THE MONTH on http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=37385 for April / 2012. Since this is most likely the last release of the mod, this is probably the only chance it will happen. So if you feel inclined, please vote! And thanks!

Version 4.5.0 is now available on http://oblivion.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=37385 and http://tesalliance.org/forums/index.php?/files/file/893-sdr-sneaking-detection-recalibrated/, in Wrye Bash, Omod, and Manual installation formats. Wrye Bash and Omod now both have installation wizards.

4.5.0 is a big update as it merged the SDR NPC Behavior.esp into the SDR Core.esp, as well as some bug fixes. It is recommended that you uninstall any previous versions, save a game clean without SDR installed, and then install the new version.

Visit the http://saebel.net/sdr.php for complete details, download links, installation instructions, up-to-date .ini user guide, mod-conflict info, performance tips, and much much more!

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Sneaking Detection Recalibrated (SDR) - brief description:
This mod completely rewrites how sneaking/detection works. Complete details are on the main file site (see link above).
A brief list of the main features* are as follows:
  • Takes into account the light falling on the detector as well as the player
  • No skills are modified in any way
  • All penalties / bonuses are calculated separately for each detector-player relationship
  • Having a lit torch can cancel out any current or cast invisibility spell effects on the player.
  • Silence spells cast on the player will nullify sound penalties
  • Extended sneak attack bonuses up through Master Sneak.
  • Everything you have equipped impacts your sound penalties, not just boots.
  • Equipped gear takes into account, clothing, light armor, heavy armor, and weapon (if drawn).
  • Equipped gear penalties apply to player and NPCs.
  • Sneak Skill-up bonuses for undetected assassinations
  • Takes into account peripheral vision angles.
  • Sneaking NPCs become transparent if not invisible.
  • Chameleon refraction effects replaced with transparency.
  • Designed for Oblivion and Nehrim.
  • NPCs will actually cast Detect Life and Night-Eye spells and powers if they have them and are spooked.
  • SM Combat Hide mod by Strategy Master is adapted and built in (with permission).
  • New Perks, such as sneaking while sprinting and bypassing pressure plates and tripwires.
  • Patches / Compatibility for Real Sleep Extended, Basic Primary Needs, Bare Necessities, Oblivion X.P., and Druid Mod Remade.
  • Dynamically changing Night-Eye effect that changes in color and peripheral constraints depending on the lighting conditions.
  • Fully customizable to taste via .ini file settings.
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THE RULES:
1. If you are asking about how SDR works, you must read the .ini User Guide first before asking here.
2. I have decided to stop development on SDR. It's done. I am not taking any more requests, so if I don't respond, please don't think me rude.
3. If there is a problem, it is most likely one of three things:
  • The SDR OBSE plug-in is not installed correctly
  • Another mod is conflicting with one or more setting (usually disabling/changing an .ini setting in either of the mods will solve the problem)
  • There really is a problem with SDR (you must have tested SDR on its own with no other mods installed to claim this)
To properly trouble shoot an issue:
  • Read the documentation thoroughly first. It will most likely answer your question, or provide a method to solve your problem.
  • If there is a conflict with another mod or some other weird behavior, you may only need to change a setting in the .ini. See documentation.
  • Search this thread or previous ones to see if the issue has already been reported and solved.
If you still haven't solved the problem, I am more than happy to help. You must include the following information in your post:
  • A brief description of the issue
  • Which versions of SDR and OBSE you are using.
  • A detailed description of the issue
  • Your load order
  • Links to videos or images that might show more detail on the problem (if applicable/possible)
If you discover an issue and resolve it, please post the issue and the solution in this thread so that others may find it.

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Links to Previous Threads:
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1336793-relz-sneaking-detection-recalibrated-7/
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1275915-relz-sneaking-detection-recalibrated/page__view__findpost__p__19300031
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1243335-relz-sdr-sneaking-detection-recalibrated-5/page__view__findpost__p__18873538
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1230623-relz-sdr-sneaking-detection-recalibrated-4/page__view__findpost__p__18591528
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1216515-relz-sdr-sneaking-detection-recalibrated-3/page__view__findpost__p__18237929
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1194753-relz-sdr-sneaking-detection-recalibrated-2/page__view__findpost__p__17752443
http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1170938-relz-new-mod-sneaking-detection-recalibrated/page__view__findpost__p__17262286
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Rachel Eloise Getoutofmyface
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:05 am

Just thought I'd repeat what was posted on the last thread about SDR for Skyrim. It's probably never going to happen, or at least, not any time soon, and most likely not by me.

Technical challenges:
- all the bugs need to worked out for both the game and the Creation Kit
- someone else would need to hack the detection formula and provide a plug-in that hooks and replaces it
- someone else would need to create the equivalent of the add actor values plug-in
- someone else would need to create the equivalent of the night-eye shader switcher plug-in

Personal challenges:
I have spent well over 500 hours (rough estimate) on SDR, designing, testing, documenting, and supporting. Had I known it was going to take that much time, I probably would never have started. My long term goal is to become a feature film director, so that's where my future spare time is going to be focused on.

However:
If all the necessary foundational pieces fall into place for Skyrim, I don't see anything wrong with someone else picking up the SDR torch and creating SSDR. But that's probably a ways off at best.

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P.S. I'm gunning for FILE OF THE MONTH on http://tes.nexusmods.com/downloads/file.php?id=37385 for April / 2012. Since this is most likely the last release of the mod, this is probably the only chance it will happen. So if you feel inclined, please vote! And thanks!
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Marion Geneste
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:56 am

I've been following this mod with interest from it's very start, and since it's now in it's final version I want to put it into my game. My only question is this: How does it play with Reneer's Guard Overhaul? Does it replace it's function or does it complement it? I've already voted it for File of the Month and I see it has a nice headstart on the others already :)

Artorius.
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Daddy Cool!
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 9:30 am

I've been following this mod with interest from it's very start, and since it's now in it's final version I want to put it into my game. My only question is this: How does it play with Reneer's Guard Overhaul? Does it replace it's function or does it complement it? I've already voted it for File of the Month and I see it has a nice headstart on the others already :smile:

Artorius.
Complements it. If you go to the official SDR website, there is an entire web-page that covers inter-mod compatibility, and may answer your other questions along those lines.
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Eibe Novy
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 8:08 pm

Complements it. If you go to the official SDR website, there is an entire web-page that covers inter-mod compatibility, and may answer your other questions along those lines.

Cool, thanks for the prompt response, having a look at the website now.

Edit: Wow that has to be one of the most detailed and informative Readme's of any mod I've seen, excellent work my friend! I'll think I'll install it tommorow since it's kinda late in the UK and I have some detailed tweaking that I need to do for my mods.

Artorius.
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Darlene DIllow
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:31 pm

Voted, and Endorsed. (and commented too.....)

Excellent work! Although, I suspect that you underestimate the amount of time you have invested in the development of this mod. :D
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Sebrina Johnstone
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 1:44 pm

Voted and endorsed :)
Tiny question (don't remember if it was asked before): is SDR nighteye shaders showing shadows like the Kuertee's ones?
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Lily
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:58 pm

Voted and endorsed :)
Tiny question (don't remember if it was asked before): is SDR nighteye shaders showing shadows like the Kuertee's ones?
In my tests, it did appear to show shadows, but they are slightly washed out than standard vision, which makes sense since your eyes would be picking up more light from the shadowed areas. Also, the color scheme changes. In 100 % lighting, the colors are the same, but as you are hit with less light, you lose more of the red, and gain more blue. Peripheral tunnel vision works similarly, at full effect at 100 light and non-existent in darker scenarios.

If you want to see the differences, assign yourself a ring of night eye, and grab a torch. Find a really dark part of a dungeon, light level of 20 or less. Test it without the ring, first with the torch, then no torch. Then put on the ring and repeat, and that will give you a sense of the extremes, and probably the shadows as well if there are enough objects around. Otherwise, you can test the shadow effects by putting the ring on/off, try it at midnight, and then again during the day.
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ashleigh bryden
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:49 am

Voted, and Endorsed. (and commented too.....)

Excellent work! Although, I suspect that you underestimate the amount of time you have invested in the development of this mod. :biggrin:
You are quite right about the time, it's probably more like double, but after a certain point, adding an extra pound to 100 doesn't make that much difference.

Speaking of 100, SDR just hit the 100 Endorsemant mark on TES Nexus! And it has a strong lead in the File Of The Month voting pool!

Thanks everyone!
:banana: :run: :bunny: :rock:
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Kanaoka
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 6:57 pm

Voted on Nexus. All the best!
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Brentleah Jeffs
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 10:59 am

What option for sprinting fatigue burn (sdrSprintingQ.vSprintFatigueBurnMult to 4.6 ; SDR: 4.6 / RF: 3.9 / SMEF: 3.8) should be used with Wrye Bash "Fatigue from running/encumbrence 1.5x" option turned on?
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SUck MYdIck
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 8:26 pm

No idea, perhaps 2/3 of the value? I'd recommend turning the 1.5 off actually, but I'm biased. The numbers I came up with were after exhaustive testing, and comparing gate / running times of professional atheletes at the top of their game to a character wearing "running clothes" equivalents, and with 100s in atheltics and speed. Basically, I'd have them run at a full sprint, and when they were forced to walk due to fatigue at the target distance (100m, 200m, etc.), that's the multiple I went with. Having the wrye bash multiple of 1.5 will either compound or replace the fatigue drain, and I can't confirm adjusting the multiple down will end up with the desired effect. Is there another mod that requires it to be turned on, or are you just mucking about with the settings?
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Quick Draw III
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 5:14 pm

It's just a sort of replacer for mods that introduce fatigue burn from running (like Realistic Fatigue). Well, maybe I just shoud turn it of then. I turned it on to make fatigue more important factor, since it refueled itself faster then you burn it by running in Vanilla Oblivion.
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Skivs
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 10:43 am

It's just a sort of replacer for mods that introduce fatigue burn from running (like Realistic Fatigue). Well, maybe I just shoud turn it of then. I turned it on to make fatigue more important factor, since it refueled itself faster then you burn it by running in Vanilla Oblivion.
Makes sense if you don't have any fatigue mods installed. In which case you can try that, and then try toning down my multiple by 2/3. If you do have one of the fatigue mods installed, then I would turn it off, and then go with the SDR settings that is designed for that mod. (I think I figured it out for two of them, but I forget which)
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LittleMiss
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 10:03 am

Hi saebel,
Just want to say thanks again for all your work on this. It does appear the vanishing corpses (and vanishing me!) are well and truly gone. :banana:
For what it's worth, the night-eye shaders don't seem to work with my video card (neither do kuertee's), at least not with HDR (haven't tried without and probably won't). I get a white screen with just the HUD visible -- flashbacks to when I first tried to install Oblivion with an old card (has it been that many years???). So... thanks for that little bit of nostalgia, I guess.
Seriously, good work though. Voted and endorsed!
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Skivs
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 11:11 am

Saebel,
Great mod. Have been having a fine time playing with it. One thing I noticed though, when I get killed and reload from the last save point, my night eye is not working. I am using the auto night eye function. It works when I exit the game fully and re-enter, but not when I just load from the last save. Don't have a clue why that happens yet.

Raed
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Soku Nyorah
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 2:52 pm

I noticed a number of things that don't seem right in the final version.
Here's a list:

1. The achievements tab (where nirnroots found and such are displayed) has two lines about SDR alpha value. Is that intended to be there?

2. I have the impression that NPCs now always activate their detect life spells, regardless if they already noticed something or not, so it's impossible to even enter the room without being immediately detected. Has something changed there?

3. The minimum skill requirement for NPCs to receive spells only works if the useskillsaschance option is turned on, too.

4. OOOs increased trap damage has stopped working. That already happened a while ago but disappeared again. But you didn't change anything about your trap perk in the last update, did you? Actually SDR does not touch the damage defining scripts so I wonder what's going wrong there.

5. So far none of the infravision using guys has seen me in the dark, so I wonder if it's working.
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katsomaya Sanchez
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:17 pm

Hi saebel,
Just want to say thanks again for all your work on this. It does appear the vanishing corpses (and vanishing me!) are well and truly gone. :banana:
For what it's worth, the night-eye shaders don't seem to work with my video card (neither do kuertee's), at least not with HDR (haven't tried without and probably won't). I get a white screen with just the HUD visible -- flashbacks to when I first tried to install Oblivion with an old card (has it been that many years???). So... thanks for that little bit of nostalgia, I guess. Seriously, good work though. Voted and endorsed!
Thanks! Yeah, I'm not sure what to tell you on that one. It might be the Nvidia fog fix, or something like that. For some reason, on the same laptop, I had no problems with HDR turned on in Oblivion, but with a Nehrim install, all I got was what you described, except my screen was black, not white. Only thing that worked was turning off HDR and Bloom (which were both checked for some reason)

Saebel,
Great mod. Have been having a fine time playing with it. One thing I noticed though, when I get killed and reload from the last save point, my night eye is not working. I am using the auto night eye function. It works when I exit the game fully and re-enter, but not when I just load from the last save. Don't have a clue why that happens yet.
Raed
Not sure why that happens for you. I'm not experiencing that issue. I have (for once) actually been playing a run through of Oblivion, and have had several times of dying in game, and reloading worked as expected. Either it's a conflict with another mod, or perhaps the auto-night-eye quest is being turned off or something like that when it shouldn't. Hard to tell since I can't replicate the problem.

I noticed a number of things that don't seem right in the final version.
Here's a list:

1. The achievements tab (where nirnroots found and such are displayed) has two lines about SDR alpha value. Is that intended to be there?

2. I have the impression that NPCs now always activate their detect life spells, regardless if they already noticed something or not, so it's impossible to even enter the room without being immediately detected. Has something changed there?

3. The minimum skill requirement for NPCs to receive spells only works if the useskillsaschance option is turned on, too.

4. OOOs increased trap damage has stopped working. That already happened a while ago but disappeared again. But you didn't change anything about your trap perk in the last update, did you? Actually SDR does not touch the damage defining scripts so I wonder what's going wrong there.

5. So far none of the infravision using guys has seen me in the dark, so I wonder if it's working.
1. Yes and no. AddActorValues has the option of displaying the values of the actor value tokens in the achievements menu list. Early on in development, I had them all turned on, but folks complained, so I turned them all off. However, there is no method of retrieving the value of an actor token through the console, so I turned those two back on when I was trying to figure out why NPCs were disappearing. I forgot to turn them off again before release. I'll upload an optional version that disables that, which you will be able to drop right on top of the old one. Same version number. I'll post here when it is up.

2. It used to be worse. They do not always cast their spells, there is a random chance they won't, but the higher their skill and intelligence, the more likely it will happen, and they have to be in "spooked" mode which is detection level 2. Detect Life is not a guaranteed chance that you will be detected, but it is a significant boost. Best thing you can do is stop moving if you hear a detect life spell going off. But yeah, it's REALLY hard to avoid detection, especially from vampires.

3. That is correct. If you turn off use skill as chance, the skill level of the NPC is ignored, and they just have the flat chance to get a spell which is 10% by default, if I recall correctly.

4. If you are a Journeyman at Sneak, and are sneaking while walking (as opposed to running), you can pass over pressure plates and through tripwires without setting them off. Perhaps that is what is going on?
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[ becca ]
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 4:41 pm

2. My issue is, that they do not only use it when spooked anymore, they use it always. In one example I entered a cave of conjurers and after a second the ones in the next room had used the spell and detected me, despite I had not even moved yet. So basically, NPCs have their spells always actiove, so that it becomes impossible to avoid detection.

3. Ok, I was just confused because that wasn't clear from the description.

4. No, there is a conflict: dependent on load order I either get normal damage from traps, or SDRs perk does not work. Weird is, that this was not an issue with all the previous versions but one, I wonder why it cropped up again.
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Cody Banks
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 8:16 am

2. My issue is, that they do not only use it when spooked anymore, they use it always. In one example I entered a cave of conjurers and after a second the ones in the next room had used the spell and detected me, despite I had not even moved yet. So basically, NPCs have their spells always actiove, so that it becomes impossible to avoid detection.

3. Ok, I was just confused because that wasn't clear from the description.

4. No, there is a conflict: dependent on load order I either get normal damage from traps, or SDRs perk does not work. Weird is, that this was not an issue with all the previous versions but one, I wonder why it cropped up again.
Re: 2, I'll double check the scripting, but I'm pretty darn sure that they only use it if a) you are not in line of sight, and b ) the GetDetectionLevel against you is 2.

Re: 3, I'll clarify the description.

Re: 4, There's not a whole lot I can do about it. If you are getting different results due to load order, most likely OOO is modifying the exact same script, which makes sense if they are modifying the results of the trap. SDR's perk only works if you have Sneak as a journeyman, and you are sneaking at the "walk" rate. If you are running and sneaking, you will set off the traps.

I'll add OOO to the "what's going on" list, and see if there is anything I can do about it. Don't know when that will be though.
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BrEezy Baby
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 7:06 am

Just wanted to provide some first hand experience on dealing with NPCs casting the detect life spell. One of my favorite things to do is to get Azura's star, which requires taking out 5 vampires. With SDR loaded, as well as Duke Patrick's melee combat and combat archery mods, it became very difficult, but not impossible. That said, being detected basically becomes a matter of life and death. Because if they find you, they are on you in a flash. And while you might be able to take out one at a time, if two of them gang up on you, you are basically screwed. So in this last play through, I was (eventually) able to assassinate 3 out of the 5 vampires, despite their ability to cast their hunter's sight spell. Details follow in the spoiler:
Spoiler

I could actually hear them casting it off in the distance, and distance was the key factor here. I kept as far away from them as I could, and used my own detect life spell to try and figure out their movements. Because even if they have detect life active, if they are not facing in your direction, it doesn't do them any good. Also, there is a range limit to their detect life, so as long as I could stay out of their range, I was basically okay. I think I died only once (maybe twice) in killing off the first four vampires. The last one was really difficult, because he kept one-shotting me before I could swap out my bow with a melee weapon. Eventually I got him by waiting until he got trapped in that corner area and wouldn't run around. I was a strong 15th level at the time that I did this play through.
In general, things to factor in are range and the power of the detect life spell being cast. If you are faced with a conjurer, and they have a high mysticism skill level, they are going to have a very powerful detect life spell that you might easily be within range of. Loading up on silence arrows and silence poisons would probably be very helpful before walking into a den of those guys.
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Je suis
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 9:46 pm

Just wanted to provide some first hand experience on dealing with NPCs casting the detect life spell. One of my favorite things to do is to get Azura's star, which requires taking out 5 vampires. With SDR loaded, as well as Duke Patrick's melee combat and combat archery mods, it became very difficult, but not impossible. That said, being detected basically becomes a matter of life and death. Because if they find you, they are on you in a flash. And while you might be able to take out one at a time, if two of them gang up on you, you are basically screwed. So in this last play through, I was (eventually) able to assassinate 3 out of the 5 vampires, despite their ability to cast their hunter's sight spell. Details follow in the spoiler:
Spoiler

I could actually hear them casting it off in the distance, and distance was the key factor here. I kept as far away from them as I could, and used my own detect life spell to try and figure out their movements. Because even if they have detect life active, if they are not facing in your direction, it doesn't do them any good. Also, there is a range limit to their detect life, so as long as I could stay out of their range, I was basically okay. I think I died only once (maybe twice) in killing off the first four vampires. The last one was really difficult, because he kept one-shotting me before I could swap out my bow with a melee weapon. Eventually I got him by waiting until he got trapped in that corner area and wouldn't run around. I was a strong 15th level at the time that I did this play through.
In general, things to factor in are range and the power of the detect life spell being cast. If you are faced with a conjurer, and they have a high mysticism skill level, they are going to have a very powerful detect life spell that you might easily be within range of. Loading up on silence arrows and silence poisons would probably be very helpful before walking into a den of those guys.

Thanks for the tip for dealing with those baddies. For this current play-through, I have the exact same combat set-up as you do (SDR+Duke's Melee+Duke's Archery). Tough but incredibly fun.
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Kitana Lucas
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 8:39 pm

Update on the Horizon:
It looks like I'll have to do another mini update in the near future due to a bizarre bug that under very rare conditions causes a crash with the NPC Behavior.esp and the casting detect magic feature. I know what the source of the crash is, but not sure how to fix it yet. Mainly because I'm not getting the crash. But, since I have to work on it anyway, I'm going to take the opportunity to clean up some tidbits that folks have mentioned so far, so if there are any other tweaks you would like to see, let me know. Current Possible List:
1. Remove the two lines about SDR alpha values from the achievements tab
2. Add a casting delayer timer .ini option for when actors attempt to cast their detection spells. Essentially you can set a delay from when the spell was last cast to when they start checking to cast again.
3. Make the minimum skill requirement for NPCs to receive spells always a requirement, even if the useskillsaschance option is turned off. (I have mixed feelings about this, so feedback on this would be welcome)
4. A BIG if here: Merge NPC Behavior.esp into the SDR Core.esp. Right now there are only two features in NPC Behavior, and those features could be bundled in to the Core token that is already assigned to NPCs. It may improve performance a bit, or not. I'd have to look at it in more detail. The question is whether or not it's worth doing all that work just to free up a slot.

Missed a Question:
I wanted to address a comment I missed earlier.
So far none of the infravision using guys has seen me in the dark, so I wonder if it's working.
I've completely changed how infravision/nightvision works. What was happening in the original Oblivion game was that a detector would get a *3 multiplier to see you if night-eye was turned. That's basically like taking the current light level and multiplying it by 3, so a light level of 50 would be 150, etc. etc. In a way, that sort of made sense, especially with the Night Eye shader they used. However, their interpretation of night-vision is more like night-vision goggles. I have a completely different perspective on it, which is based on my research on what natural "night-vision" is really like. So rather than a multiplier, I changed the curve, so that lower light levels would effectively be higher, but still within the range of 0 - 100. So night-vision makes light at level 30 the equivalent of 50, twilight makes 40 the equivalent of 50, and day vision stays the same at 50. There is a graph in the .ini User Guide which will give you a better sense of it. If you want to see bigger boosts, you can drop those numbers down, which might be a good idea if you have mods installed like cava obscura that reduce the light all the way around. So for instance, perhaps you may want to go 20 / 35 / 50, or if you really want to make it hard on yourself, go with 10 / 30 / 50. I personally find the current default settings challenging enough, and as far as I can tell, it's working as designed.

OOO / FCOM Compatibility:
On a side note, since there is a new version of OOO and FCOM coming out in the near future, I'm not going to investigate compatibility issues until after it is officially released, since for all I know those issues might go away. Once it's been released, anyone who has had any issues with it combine with SDR, let me know, and then I'll look into it. I'm not wiling to spend time on addressing compatibility with beta products.
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SWagg KId
 
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Post » Fri May 04, 2012 10:11 am

Not sure why that happens for you. I'm not experiencing that issue. I have (for once) actually been playing a run through of Oblivion, and have had several times of dying in game, and reloading worked as expected. Either it's a conflict with another mod, or perhaps the auto-night-eye quest is being turned off or something like that when it shouldn't. Hard to tell since I can't replicate the problem.
It's probably a mod conflict - I'm getting something similar. I've found that if I load a save with nighteye active, it reverts to the vanilla value; turning it off and back on again will assert SDR's value (whatever you set in the ini), so I didn't bother reporting it.
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sam smith
 
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:55 am

Post » Fri May 04, 2012 9:04 am

That definitely implies mod conflict. Any chance you could post load order? Maybe SDR needs to be further down on the list?
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Quick Draw III
 
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Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:27 am

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