[Relz] Sneaking Detection Recalibrated #6 : IV - Oblivion

» Wed May 09, 2012 7:07 am

So, just to be clear:

with only Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp, SneakingDetectionRecalibrated.dll and AddActorValues.dll installed, you are getting NOT FOUND with the getgamesetting command when used on the new game settings?

what happens if you deactivate those as well so that nothing is active, create a saved game, and then reactivate the SDR components? (you may also need any components that support the race of your character active as well, but try it without first.)

» Wed May 09, 2012 2:09 am

with only Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp, SneakingDetectionRecalibrated.dll and AddActorValues.dll installed, you are getting NOT FOUND with the getgamesetting command when used on the new game settings?

Exactly. I tried it with a save from a vanilla character, and a new game. Nothing.

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:35 pm

Exactly. I tried it with a save from a vanilla character, and a new game. Nothing.

Start a new game with just those three things installed, save it immediately and close Oblivion, then post the following:

Your save files (*.ess and *.obse)
Obse.log, found in your Oblivion/ folder
AddActorValues.log
SneakingDetectionRecalibrated.log

The reason I'm asking you to start another new game is to make sure that the logs and the save files are all from the same play session.

» Wed May 09, 2012 2:25 am

How do I post saves?

» Tue May 08, 2012 4:28 pm

How do I post saves?

Zip the files together and use a service such as drop box.

» Wed May 09, 2012 5:38 am

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51037230/Test.zip

» Wed May 09, 2012 4:26 am

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51037230/Test.zip

Thanks for posting those. The logs show that you installed everything correctly, and that the new actor values are being used as intended (there is a clear record of them in the save file).
However, I gather from previous posts that you never had an issue with the actor values and were simply confusing them with the new game settings.

Game settings are not recorded in logs or save files, but in my tests of SDR they are being created just fine. When you tried GetGS in the console, are you absolutely sure that you entered the setting name correctly? A typo would explain the "NOT FOUND" message. You can use http://www.mediafire.com/?8piccn3bk88ammm to perform the check automatically. It will dump test results to the console a few seconds after you load a savegame.

» Wed May 09, 2012 12:54 am

I have indeed often entered a false name for the gs. They are not extremely easy to remember.^^ However I tried often enough that something should have shown up if it was there. Thanks for the mod though. But it only tells me three things:
fsneaklightmult = 1.4 (this is a vanilla one afaik)
?SdrInvissightEffPerc does not exist
ifoobar does not exist

What's up with the rest? (Not that the result would be hard to forsee though...)

» Wed May 09, 2012 4:22 am

I have indeed often entered a false name for the gs. They are not extremely easy to remember.^^ However I tried often enough that something should have shown up if it was there. Thanks for the mod though. But it only tells me three things:
fsneaklightmult = 1.4 (this is a vanilla one afaik)
?SdrInvissightEffPerc does not exist
ifoobar does not exist

What's up with the rest? (Not that the result would be hard to forsee though...)

I apologize for not making them easier to remember, but in order to avoid potential conflicts with other mods, I had strict name conventions I needed to follow.
Each game setting starts with an "i" for interger or "f" for a float, which determines the type of number.
Next is always "SDRs" which represents "SDR setting"
After that is the game setting name. In this case "InvisSightEffPerc", which is Invisibility Sight Effectiveness Percentage, condensed to reduce typing.
So the game setting is actually iSDRsInvisSightEffPerc (which is different from what you have above). If you mistype a single letter, you will get a "does not exist".

I'm going to work on a debug option that will allow you to confirm the SDR game settings without having to type anything in. Because if what JRoush is telling me is correct, and (hopefully) the only reason you aren't getting any results with the get game setting command is due to some weird keyboard malfunction (I noticed your "i" is an odd character, so I'm wondering if it's a foreign keyboard).

Anyway, I hope to have something up shortly.

» Tue May 08, 2012 3:29 pm

fsneaklightmult = 1.4 (this is a vanilla one afaik)
?SdrInvissightEffPerc does not exist
ifoobar does not exist

Thanks for trying that. I had to ask, just to eliminate the possibility.

These results indicate that the SDR game settings are not found in the gmst collection. The script only tests one of them, but that's enough for our purposes.

Saebel: I had a look at the plugin source, and everything seems to be in order. This is a real head-scratcher.

» Tue May 08, 2012 3:48 pm

Thanks for trying that. I had to ask, just to eliminate the possibility.

These results indicate that the SDR game settings are not found in the gmst collection. The script only tests one of them, but that's enough for our purposes.

Saebel: I had a look at the plugin source, and everything seems to be in order. This is a real head-scratcher.

The game setting that was listed in the post would return as not found because it doesn't exist:
?SdrInvisSightEffPerc (wrong spelling, first letter as well as missing s after SDR)
This one should return with the value set for it.
iSDRsInvisSightEffPerc (correct)

Maybe the tool you made misspelled something? I didn't try it. I have to run off to a client, so I'll have to come back to this later.

» Wed May 09, 2012 3:09 am

The game setting that was listed in the post would return as not found because it doesn't exist:
?SdrInvisSightEffPerc (wrong spelling, first letter as well as missing s after SDR)
This one should return with the value set for it.
iSDRsInvisSightEffPerc (correct)

Maybe the tool you made misspelled something? I didn't try it. I have to run off to a client, so I'll have to come back to this later.

No, the test script has the correct spelling (that was the whole point). I assume that Kobal does not have a console logger and copied the results into his post manually, hence the wrong spelling and circumflex over the "i".

There is some real effect happening here, I'm just not sure what could be causing it. You will need to add some debugging output and tests to the plugin to get to the bottom of it.

» Wed May 09, 2012 1:48 am

No, the test script has the correct spelling (that was the whole point). I assume that Kobal does not have a console logger and copied the results into his post manually, hence the wrong spelling and circumflex over the "i".

There is some real effect happening here, I'm just not sure what could be causing it. You will need to add some debugging output and tests to the plugin to get to the bottom of it.

okay. I'll put something together.

» Wed May 09, 2012 5:00 am

Kobal,

My apologies for taking so long. It's been a busy week.

I've uploaded a new update to the website (v4.0.4), which you can http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=37385.
It has a built in debug system that writes a log of all the game settings each time you load a save.
In order to use it, you have to install Conscribe. If you don't already have it, you can http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=26510.

Once you have installed the new update (which is just a single .esp that you can overwrite the previous file with) and conscribe, follow these instructions:
1. Launch Oblivion
2. Load a saved game
3. Wait a few seconds after the Sneaking Detection Recalibrated Initialization message
4. Exit the game
5. Go to the following directory: (drive:\dir\)Oblivion\Data\ConScribe Logs\Per-Mod
6. Open the following file: ini SDR game settings dump.log
7. Copy the contents, and post the contents here with spoiler tags.

In theory, there should be some number for every setting if it is working correctly. Let's start with that and go from there.

saebel

P.S. Off topic:
TES Nexus just hit 2000 unique downloads, and I'm up to 76 endorsemants. Not bad considering the mod hasn't been out for even a year yet, and Skyrim is all the rage. Thanks for the love gang!

» Wed May 09, 2012 7:20 am

No need to apologize. I am glad that you take the time looking into my issue despite I am apparently standing alone with it.

Here is the log.

Spoiler

SDR: Dumping Game Settings to log
-----------------------------------------
OBSE version is 20.6
SDR version is 4.0.4
-----------------------------------------
Oblivion Game Settings:
-----------------------------------------
> fSneakBaseValue is -25.00
> fDetectionSneakLightMod is 0.00
> fSneakTargetInCombatBonus is 45.00
> fSneakMaxDistance is 1500.00
> fSneakExteriorDistanceMult is 2.00
> fSneakLightMult is 1.40
> fSneakSoundsMult is 1.90
> fSneakSkillMult is 0.50
> fSneakSoundLosMult is 0.80
> fSneakRunningMult is 1.50
> FSneakUnseenMin is 0.00
> FSneakNoticedMin is -20.00
> FSneakLostMin is -15.00
> IAICombatMinDetection is -40.00
> fSneakSleepBonus is -40.00
> fMoveRunMult is 2.50
> fMoveRunAthleticsMult is 0.50
> fMoveSneakMult is 0.60
> fChameleonMinRefraction is 0.00
> fChameleonMaxRefraction is 0.00
-----------------------------------------
SDR's Game Settings
-----------------------------------------
Visual Settings
> iSDRsDetectionPackage is 0.00
> iSDRsShortRangeMaxBump is 0.00
> iSDRsShortRangeMaxDistance is 0.00
> iSDRsShortRangeMinDistance is 0.00
> iSDRsLightingBumpTorch is 0.00
> iSDRsLightingBumpLightSpell is 0.00
> iSDRsLightingExpPercent is 0.00
> fSDRsPeripheralScaling is 0.00
> iSDRsLOSmpWalk is 0.00
> iSDRsLOSmpRunJump is 0.00
> iSDRsLOSmpSwim is 0.00
> iSDRsLOSmpSprint is 0.00
Audial Settings
> iSDRsSoundBaseMovementPenalty is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundTurningMult is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundSwimmingMult is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundUnderWaterMult is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundSprintMult is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundMultCloth is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundMultLight is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundMultHeavy is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundMultBlade is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundMultBlunt is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundMultBow is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundMultStaff is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundMult2Handed is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundWeapRunMult is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundWeapSwimMult is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundMultEquip is 0.00
> fSDRsSoundMultUnequip is 0.00
> iSDRsSilencePerk is 0.00
> iSDRsSoundBumpLanding is 0.00
> iSDRsSoundBumpSplash is 0.00
Skill Settings
> iSDRsTrackingBonus is 0.00
> iSDRsTalkPenalty is 0.00
> iSDRsDialoguePenalty is 0.00
> fSDRsSkillCVmult is 0.00
> fSDRsSkillCrimeGoldMult is 0.00
> fSDRsSkillNoLOStorchMult is 0.00
> fSDRsSkillNoLOSlightSpellMult is 0.00
> fSDRsSkillEffectiveSneakCap is 0.00
Misc. Settings
> fSDRsSleepSightMult is 0.00
> fSDRsSleepSoundMult is 0.00
> iSDRsInvisSightEffPerc is 0.00
> iSDRsInvisSoundEffPerc is 0.00
> iSDRsInvisSkillEffPerc is 0.00
> iSDRsChamSightEffPerc is 0.00
> iSDRsChamSoundEffPerc is 0.00
> iSDRsChamSkillEffPerc is 0.00
> iSDRsChamTorchEffect is 0.00
> iSDRsChamLightEffect is 0.00
> iSDRsDetMaxAdjHealth is 0.00
> iSDRsDetMaxAdjFatigue is 0.00
> iSDRsApplyDetectLifeEffects is 0.00

» Tue May 08, 2012 10:13 pm

Well, that at least tells me a couple of things. The .esp is working, otherwise you would never have gotten that far.

Let's try something else.
- Go into the Data/ini folder and delete the Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.ini file (or at least move it out of the desktop)
- run Oblivion again.
- The mod should try to load the .ini, fail because it isn't there, and then run an internal default set of backup initialization settings.
- You should get a message box that tells you it's missing.
- Close the box, wait for everything else to load up
- Exit the game
- Check the settings dump log
- delete the log

If you don't get 0s, then the .ini was corrupted. If not there is something else going on (see below). In either case:
- use wryebash to reinstall the .ini from the default 4.0.2 file installer
- make sure that you also install 4.0.4 on top of that in case the 4.0.4 gets over written with 4.0.2.

If you get 0s again, the next step is to check if the .obse save game might be corrupt.
- go to your list of game saves in my documents/games/oblivion/saved games (I think)
- go to the last matching pair of saved game files
- rename the .obse one to .oldobse
- relaunch Oblivion
- load that saved game
- ignore the error messages
- save the game
- exit the game to the main menu
- load the new saved game again
- wait for any and all messages to finish loading
- run around for a few seconds
- exit the game
- check the settings dump log
- delete the log

If you are still getting 0s, then perhaps the SneakingDetectionRecalibrated.dll is corrupted.
- Go to data/obse/plugins
- delete the SneakingDetectionRecalibrated.dll
- use wryebash to reinstall the .dll plug-in from the default 4.0.2 file installer
- make sure that you also install 4.0.4 on top of that
- launch oblivion, load the saved game, run around for a bit
- exit the game
- check the game settings dump log

If you are STILL getting 0s, the only thing I can think of is that another mod or OBSE plug-in is interfering. Or some other application, like an anti-virus program. Or maybe Oblivion is installed in the Program Files directory (which has been known to cause other problems)

Anyway, give those three a shot, and let me know what happens.

» Wed May 09, 2012 3:49 am

I took a break from investigating my SDR issues because I wanted to play the game for a while rather than trying stuff out, but I have now tried the things you suggested, but with no good results. It wasn't the ini. The OBSE save game check made the game freeze after loading the newly created safe, but this wouldn't explain anyway why it doesn't work on a new character. I think corruption of any kind is unlikely, because I reinstalled the mod several times from different downloads during the course of testing. I was also thinking of another application interfering, but it's apparently not my firewall, and what else could it be?

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:47 pm

I took a break from investigating my SDR issues because I wanted to play the game for a while rather than trying stuff out, but I have now tried the things you suggested, but with no good results. It wasn't the ini. The OBSE save game check made the game freeze after loading the newly created safe, but this wouldn't explain anyway why it doesn't work on a new character. I think corruption of any kind is unlikely, because I reinstalled the mod several times from different downloads during the course of testing. I was also thinking of another application interfering, but it's apparently not my firewall, and what else could it be?

EDIT:
I went back and reviewed some of your previous trouble shooting posts, and it looks like you already tried the disabled.dll trick (I listed below)
What directory is your Oblivion game installed in?

-------------------------
I'm running out of ideas. Clearly the Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp is working, and so is OBSE, otherwise you wouldn't get that log file, and from what I can tell, it looks like it's setting the Oblivion game settings correctly (they aren't all the Oblivion default values, and a number of the defaults line up with SDR's defaults).

When I run it, I get values for all the game settings, Oblivin and SDR's, but you don't get any settings for SDR. Returning with a "NOT FOUND" in the console and all of those 0s in the log implies that the SDR custom game settings don't exist in the first place. The custom game settings are created by the SneakingDetectionRecalibrated.dll in the Oblivion/Data/OBSE/plug-ins directory.

If you aren't getting an error message saying that the .dll isn't there, then the SneakingDetectionRecalibrated.dll must be there. I can only think of two possibilities: either the new .dll was never installed over the old one for some reason, or there is another OBSE plug-in that is interfering with the SneakingDetectionRecalibrated.dll's ability to generate the game settings.

If I were in your shoes, I would try the following first:
1. Manually delete the SneakingDetectionRecalibrated.dll from the Data/OBSE/plugins directory.
2. Manually extract and copy over the SneakingDetectionRecalibrated.dll form the SDR 4.0.2 archive that you downloaded, and copy it over to the Data/OBSE/plugins directory.
3. Launch Oblivion, load the most recent stable game, save it, wander around for a bit, exit the game, check the log.

If that doesn't work, do the following:
1. Create the following folder: Data/OBSE/plugins_disabled
2. Move all the .dlls except SneakingDetectionRecalibrated.dll, ConScribe.dll, and AddActorValues.dll into the disabled folder.
3. Launch Oblivion, load the most recent stable game, save it, wander around for a bit, exit the game, check the log.
(note: you may get error messages from other mods that use those .dlls, so you may want to disable any that depend on them.
- If you are still not getting any values, I really have no idea what's going on, or how to resolve it without doing something like log-me-in or skype so that I could actually see what you were looking at as you were doing it.
- if the log shows that there are SDR gamesetting values, then clearly one of the other .dlls is causing the problem.

To determine which one, try this.
- move half of the .dlls out of the disabled plugins into plugins folder.
- launch the game, load the save, run around for a bit, then exit, check the log
- if the new game settings are there, take half of the remaining .dlls in the disabled folder, and put them back in the plugins
- if the new game settings are not there, remove half of the .dlls from the plugins folder and put them in the disabled folder.
- basically, by using halves all the time, you can fairly quickly eliminate entire groups, and get it down to the one .dll that's causing the issue.

Other than that, I have no clue what else to suggest. I'm truly sorry. It's quite baffling. Especially since you are the only one who has brought this up so far. I almost wish this was happening to someone else, because then maybe there would be more information that would help me pin down the problem.

» Wed May 09, 2012 2:07 am

either the new .dll was never installed over the old one for some reason

Seems like it was indeed this. I made one last attempt today and copied the dll from my other pc where it was working and tada - all game settings there. So either all my downloads on this pc were corrupted for some strange reason or wrye bash fails to remove/replace obse plugins properly. Guess I'am going to install this stuff by hand exclusively in the future.

Also seems like this version is running pretty flawlessly as I am the only one posting here in a while. The only two minor issues I noticed are that the perks and patches esp sometimes fails to recognize SDR is installed when loading a save that was never used with it before, (but that's only going to happen once per char so actually quite unimportant), and the new chameleon shader only works when your chameleon value changes, so after each save game load I have to reequip something, and when NPCs died while having a chameleon spell active the shader did not vanish. Maybe you can do a last update to adress this.
Thanks again for your outstanding work and patient support, I think I will now be able to enjoy a stealth based character throughout the whole game. :tops:

» Wed May 09, 2012 3:44 am

This calls for the dancing rabbit. I'm really glad the problem with the .dll and game settings were resolved. Whew!

The perks and patches issue that you mentioned is a tricky one, and it has to do with whether or not the quest is running. I used to have it set up differently, and the error was popping up all the time, because Perks and Patches somehow was loading faster before the SDR main .esp had initialized, and thus returned the error message. I changed it so that the perks and patches quest is started remotely via a runscript line when SDR main .esp initialized. However, if you load up an old save, that save won't have the initialized value of 1, and the perks and patches quest is already running, so it unfortunately tweaks things a bit under those circumstances. I'll take another look at it and see if it's worth getting rid of that particular error message, as it will cause confusion.

It's odd that you are getting that chameleon "re-equip" scenario. That's an artifact that I've only seen in the wrye bash chameleon settings. I've never seen that happen with SDR, but I could be mistaken. You might want to double check your wrye bash settings, 'cause there might be a conflict. If the wrye bash chameleon refraction replacement settings are not turned on, then I must have overlooked something.

I'll take another look at when happens when an actor dies in regards to the chameleon factor. Resetting the actor alpha value should be part of the script, but I may have left it out.

Thanks for the feed back!

P.S. It won't be until sometime in January, as I'm booked solid for the next two weeks.

» Wed May 09, 2012 1:09 am

I've noticed the "actors with chameleon active don't lose it when they die" thing as well... never bothered to report it, because it wasn't that serious an issue. But since Kobal brought it up, I'll just confirm it.

» Wed May 09, 2012 6:22 am

or wrye bash fails to remove/replace obse plugins properly.

Last time I checked, Wrye Bash wouldn't install dll plugins at all. Wrye apparently had some misgivings about installing executable files. I don't know if such a feature has been added since, or will be in the future, but I'd recommend installing all OBSE plugins by hand or with OBMM.

» Wed May 09, 2012 12:50 am

Last time I checked, Wrye Bash wouldn't install dll plugins at all. Wrye apparently had some misgivings about installing executable files. I don't know if such a feature has been added since, or will be in the future, but I'd recommend installing all OBSE plugins by hand or with OBMM.

I cant remember how many threads ago that was but its been possible for quite a long time http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=5478156Untitled.png

It will ask if you are sure you want to install it, but so long as a BAIN gives the standard install folder structure for an OBSE plugin, you can install them.

They remove okay for me on the rare occasion I have un-installed and re-installed them.

» Tue May 08, 2012 6:14 pm

I might have some down time this weekend to work on this, not sure 100%. Aside from fixing the alpha shading on dead actors, were there any other requests? Might as well see if I can resolve any other items.

One thought I had was moving the Sprint option out of the main Sneaking Detection Recalibrated .esp and into the Perks and Patches.esp. This would serve a couple of purposes:
1. It would provide fewer conflicts, especially for those don't use my Sprint system at all, or prefer one of the others.
2. If other modders have a Sprint option, and wanted to integrate it with SDR's detection system, I can set up a script in SDR that they could call to flag whenever the player is sprinting. It would require adding some lines of code to their sprint scripts, but that's about it. Then SDR could take sprinting into account, regardless of which mod is responsible for it.
Thoughts?

» Tue May 08, 2012 9:22 pm

moving the Sprint option out of the main Sneaking Detection Recalibrated .esp and into the Perks and Patches.esp

I don't mind it as it is now, but if you deem it advantegous to do so, go ahead.

I am currently testing around a bit and something and do not like so much is your new implementation of the assassination feature. Getting multiples of experience just because an enemy is a few levels higher seems unjustified to me and can provide very random results how fast you level up. Also the level is only a cross indicator how hard the enemy is to stealth kill. And OOO has everything level capped, so the feature would mostly stop working at some point if I do not constantly readjust it. I prefered the old system where every stealth kill was equal to a succesful pickpocket. The normal way of leveling sneak up does not take into account levels either, so no reason to handle it differently here.