[Relz] Sneaking Detection Recalibrated #6

Post » Tue May 08, 2012 9:10 pm

Something is strange with this mod. When clearing dungeons, i can simply fire arrows and sneak attack enemies to death with impunity. They can never find me. This is even with sneak 40. When i hit them with the first arrow, the combat music starts playing but they just stand there, allowing me to sneak attack them infinite times till they are dead.

Also if i am detected, i can just run around a corner and sneak. The enemy will instantly lose track of me and will stop in its tracks, allowing me to sneak attack them till dead. They will never run to my last known location. They just stop.

Ive also noticed something really strange while trying to break into people's houses and feed on them in Leyawin. I have near 100 sneak now and the occupants keep waking up once i approach their room....even if i take off my armor and unequip weapons. Im not sure if this is something unique to leyawin NPCs though.

Ive never touched any of the .ini settings. Heres my load order :

...snip...
HrmnsOblivionScriptOptimizationv1.0.esp
xeosp++.esp
...snip...
SDR Perks And Patches - Nehrim.esp
SDR Perks And Patches - Oblivion.esp
...snip...
If I recall correctly, the HrmnsOblivionScriptOptimization mod actually has a habit of breaking scripts when it "optimizes", try disabling it.
You should only have one of the SDR Perks And Patches running. I don't know what would happen if they are both active at the same time, but it probably isn't good.
I don't know what xeosp++ is, so if the above two suggestions don't work, maybe take a look at that?

Hope that helps.
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Caroline flitcroft
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 2:06 am

I think I've fixed all the alpha value / chameleon refraction bugs, as well as a bug that was killing the npc's from processing their custom actor values (which may have been the cause of other strange behaviour and issues). The fixes will be available in the next update (whenever that is). I still need to transfer the sprint features out of the main .esp and over into the Perks and Patches .esps.
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James Baldwin
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 8:42 pm

Just checking since I can't find it stated in the documentation but it's implied that empty equipment slots don't affect sneaking, is that right? e.g going barefoot is sneakier than wearing even the quietest shoes.
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Symone Velez
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 2:59 pm

Just checking since I can't find it stated in the documentation but it's implied that empty equipment slots don't affect sneaking, is that right? e.g going barefoot is sneakier than wearing even the quietest shoes.
That is correct. The sneakiest way to move around (without magical interference) is in your underclothes.
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Kitana Lucas
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 5:04 am

That is correct. The sneakiest way to move around (without magical interference) is in your underclothes.
Thanks for the clarification
...
Except now I have this image of the Thieves Guild arguing over the best brand of camouflage body paint :ohmy:
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katie TWAVA
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 7:30 pm

Thanks for the clarification
...
Except now I have this image of the Thieves Guild arguing over the best brand of camouflage body paint :ohmy:
I'm halfway tempted to create an alternate Argonian sub-species that has chameleon powers naturally, but only if the skin is exposed, so the effectiveness will depend on what they aren't wearing. :eek:

P.S. to all:
I'm just about ready to release the next update. Working on documentation. If there are any other additional issues or requests, now would be the time, since I won't have time later.
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Connor Wing
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 9:20 pm

I have now figured some well working ini settings out for me, concerning the offsets I would suggest you make them all so that you offset half the penalty with everything at master level(maybe a bit more for clothes) This ensures sound doesn't become meaningless and I think it would go well with my current settings.

And jumping gives the same penalty as running, plus the ini penalty? I only noticed a penalty for falling from a distance, but a normal jump didn't seem to have any impact.
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Shelby Huffman
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 9:42 pm

@ Kobal, the jumping sound multiplier is further adjusted by how much air time you have, reflecting how hard you are hitting the ground and offset by acrobatics. As for the off-sets, without more feedback from other folks, I'm hesitant to change it, but I might consider making it more customizable in the future.

Version 4.1.0 is now available for download. Requires a Clean Save installation technique
http://saebel.net/sdrInstall.php
Changes include the following:
Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp (4.1.0)
- Fixed issue in the token script in which NPCs were not consistently updating their custom actor values.
- Revised default minimum token delay time to reflect changes to the token script.
- Fixed issue where active Chameleon effects were not being made transparent right away with the "No Refraction" option turned on.
- Fixed issue where when an NPC died, their alpha value (transparency) was not being reset if they had active chameleon effects.
- Fixed issue where SDR's detection formula was not correctly identifying when character was sprinting.
- Setup method for SDR to interact with other 3rd party sprinting mods (if they are so inclined).
- Removed non-detection related sprinting features. (see below)

SDR Perks and Patches.esp (1.1.0) - OB = Oblivion, NH = Nehrim
- Fixed issue where Perks and Patches.esp did not always correctly identify that the main Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp version met the minimum requirements for the SDR Perks and Patches.esp. (OB/NH)
- Added option to make assassination experience bonus either flat or scaled. (OB)
- Added option to customize exactly what the experience bonus is, with separate settings for melee and bow/staff assassinations. (OB)
- Added Sprinting features previously in main Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp over to Perks and Patches. (OB/NH)

Website & Documentation
- Updated Change Long on web site.
- Updated .ini files and .ini guide.
- Added new SDR web page, Modder's Resource Guide, that covers how 3rd party mods can interact with SDR.
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Wanda Maximoff
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 7:13 am

Looks like I overlooked one or two things. Nothing major that will prevent you from playing the current version, but I will be uploading a new update soon.

Here's a question: I am looking into allowing third party mods to add their own "adjustments" to the detection formula, by either adjusting the detector's bonuses/penalties and/or the target's bonuses/penalties. I original had four categories: audial, visual, skill, general. However, that would mean a total of eight adjustments to track (four for the target, four for the detector). I am beginning to think that simplifying it down to just the general might be the way to go, that way I would only have to have two "values" for modders to adjust. It would be applied after all other factors (sight/sound/skill) are calculated, and then adjusted for distance. Thoughts?
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Erich Lendermon
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 6:31 pm

PS: The Wrye bash freindly package is not really WB friendly.

You have to have the 00, 01, etc. folders directly in the 7z parent file, not under another subfolder called SDR_410. Suggest selecting all 00, 01 etc. folders, and adding to SDR_410.7z. That way, WB recognizes them directly.
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Chloe Yarnall
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 12:37 am

@ Kobal, the jumping sound multiplier is further adjusted by how much air time you have, reflecting how hard you are hitting the ground and offset by acrobatics. As for the off-sets, without more feedback from other folks, I'm hesitant to change it, but I might consider making it more customizable in the future.

Version 4.1.0 is now available for download. Requires a Clean Save installation technique
http://saebel.net/sdrInstall.php
Changes include the following:
Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp (4.1.0)
- Fixed issue in the token script in which NPCs were not consistently updating their custom actor values.
- Revised default minimum token delay time to reflect changes to the token script.
- Fixed issue where active Chameleon effects were not being made transparent right away with the "No Refraction" option turned on.
- Fixed issue where when an NPC died, their alpha value (transparency) was not being reset if they had active chameleon effects.
- Fixed issue where SDR's detection formula was not correctly identifying when character was sprinting.
- Setup method for SDR to interact with other 3rd party sprinting mods (if they are so inclined).
- Removed non-detection related sprinting features. (see below)

SDR Perks and Patches.esp (1.1.0) - OB = Oblivion, NH = Nehrim
- Fixed issue where Perks and Patches.esp did not always correctly identify that the main Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp version met the minimum requirements for the SDR Perks and Patches.esp. (OB/NH)
- Added option to make assassination experience bonus either flat or scaled. (OB)
- Added option to customize exactly what the experience bonus is, with separate settings for melee and bow/staff assassinations. (OB)
- Added Sprinting features previously in main Sneaking Detection Recalibrated.esp over to Perks and Patches. (OB/NH)

Website & Documentation
- Updated Change Long on web site.
- Updated .ini files and .ini guide.
- Added new SDR web page, Modder's Resource Guide, that covers how 3rd party mods can interact with SDR.

Aww, you didn't implement my requested feature. :sad: Guess it wasn't really a popular choice.
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Abi Emily
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 7:07 pm

Here's a question: I am looking into allowing third party mods to add their own "adjustments" to the detection formula

For which purpose? Does any modder plan on doing that? And for which reason would the regular means of affecting detection not be sufficient?
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Amiee Kent
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 11:01 pm

(re: cross mod option to adjust detections)
For which purpose? Does any modder plan on doing that? And for which reason would the regular means of affecting detection not be sufficient?
Actually, at the moment, there are no modders who have come forth requesting the details on the feature. It's come up before, but because my mod came so late in the game, and now with Skyrim released, there's just not that much buzz on SDR, or tweaking Oblivion. There's a little back and forth at the moment because folks are waiting on Skyrim updates and the creation kit (I don't have Skyrim, so it might be out now for all I know). However, there are a few mods out there that do affect detection in ways that SDR does not. For example, there is one called "clang" (I think) that actually takes into account when the player makes noise, and artificially boosts the detector's Sneak skill for a bit. Ideally, you do want to tweak the actual skill, just the ability to detect. So I wanted an option where other mods that would be good with SDR could just modify the adjustments. It's either that, or I could just ask for permission to incorporate the mod, but I haven't played with them long enough to know if that's the way to go. Anyway, at this point, I'll probably just let it go until a modder requests it.

Aww, you didn't implement my requested feature. :sad: Guess it wasn't really a popular choice.
Well, it was sort of a bell and whistle request, and you were the only one requesting it. It's still on my list of things to look at, I just didn't tackle it this time around.

PS: The Wrye bash freindly package is not really WB friendly.

You have to have the 00, 01, etc. folders directly in the 7z parent file, not under another subfolder called SDR_410. Suggest selecting all 00, 01 etc. folders, and adding to SDR_410.7z. That way, WB recognizes them directly.
Doh! I'm usually pretty careful about that. Whoops. I replaced the file on the Nexus with a properly packaged one.
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Michael Russ
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 2:06 am


Well, it was sort of a bell and whistle request, and you were the only one requesting it. It's still on my list of things to look at, I just didn't tackle it this time around.


Well that's true, but at least it's still on the list! Yeah! :D
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victoria gillis
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 3:43 am

You said that I could use AV uncapper to replace the chameleon curve setting you took out, which I did, but now I noticed it does not work because apparently SDR overrides it. May I ask you to make them compatible, or bring the chameleon curve setting back?
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Abi Emily
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 10:40 pm

You said that I could use AV uncapper to replace the chameleon curve setting you took out, which I did, but now I noticed it does not work because apparently SDR overrides it. May I ask you to make them compatible, or bring the chameleon curve setting back?
Well, in theory, this is how it works:
SDR calls for the chameleon actor value. But before that happens, AV Uncapper hooks it and applies the curve settings. That's what was happening before. So when you say "it does not work", what do you mean? If you are saying that the curve is not being applied at all, that implies that either the AV Uncapper example.esp was not activated, the curve settings weren't turned on, or some other mod/OBSE plug-in is conflicting with AV Uncapper. (The only one I know of is Elys' Uncapper)

Double check those things and get back to me, although you may want to post this on the AV Uncapper thread.
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Chris Duncan
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 10:00 pm

Sounds like the adjustment interface could be useful to lighting mods such as Cava Obscura so you don't have to manually tweak the ini.
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Tanya
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 10:03 pm

I mean that I am invisible when I have 100% chameleon and that's only when SDR is turned on.
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Emma
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 8:21 pm

I mean that I am invisible when I have 100% chameleon and that's only when SDR is turned on.
Are you saying that with AV Uncapper installed and SDR not active, your total chameleon value is different than with SDR active? Or are you talking about the visual effect of being transparent?

SDR does not alter the Chameleon value (at least not in any way I can see), but Chameleon's effectiveness is handled differently. Without SDR, a Chameleon value of 100 or more means you can attack and do almost anything without being detected. With SDR, that's no longer the case, because Chameleon has different effectiveness when it comes to sight/sound/skill.

What you are describing doesn't make sense. If you have AV Uncapper installed correctly, you cannot have a Chameleon value of 100 or more.

Could you check your Chameleon value with SDR activated and again with SDR not activated? The number should be the same, and if it's over 100, then there is something off with how you have AV Uncapper installed.
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Marcia Renton
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 1:04 am

Sounds like the adjustment interface could be useful to lighting mods such as Cava Obscura so you don't have to manually tweak the ini.
I've thought about setting up an ingame settings menu, but it's something I've never done, so it would be really time consuming, and also, I don't know how to make thos settings stick. Each time a saved game is loaded, the .ini file would be called and any ingame changes made would be overwritten.

What I did for testing is have the windowed option turned on and the .ini settings open in another window. Then whenever I needed to make a setting change, I would go into console mode, save the game, alt-tab to the ini file, make the change, save it, alt-tab back to Oblivion and reload the most recent save. It's not as slick, but it works. I just kept doing that until it felt right, then I switched out if windowed into full screen.

I might be willing to do an ingame menu, but only if there was some way to save the changes.
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Sakura Haruno
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 4:01 am

Could you check your Chameleon value with SDR activated and again with SDR not activated? The number should be the same, and if it's over 100, then there is something off with how you have AV Uncapper installed.
p.s. It wouldn't be too difficult to put the uncapper settings back into the .ini. But before I do that, I want to 100% be sure of what the actual problem is. For example, if it is a visual issue, maybe what is needed is a transparency cut off so that you can still see your character, even if your Chameleon value would make you invisible. And then have two settings, one for the player an ine for NPCs (which would allow them to be 100% transparent). The visual effect just gives you a sense of how "Chameleonized" you are, and does not 100% accurately reflect your Chameleon value (that's due to the Chameleon offset that is already in the system). There is already a minimum transparency effect, otherwise 10% Chameleon doesn't look like anything has changed.
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Paula Rose
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 4:18 am

I haven't double checked this yet, but according to my knowledge getAV only returns the normal vanilla value, so I know of no way to tell what my actual chameleon value is. But without SDR bandits continued to attack me when I reached 100 chameleon, so AV uncapper worked. Now when I activate SDR, I get a 0 in the visual detection category with the same amount in chameleon. That's all I can say.
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Zosia Cetnar
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 11:41 pm

I haven't double checked this yet, but according to my knowledge getAV only returns the normal vanilla value, so I know of no way to tell what my actual chameleon value is. But without SDR bandits continued to attack me when I reached 100 chameleon, so AV uncapper worked. Now when I activate SDR, I get a 0 in the visual detection category with the same amount in chameleon. That's all I can say.
GetAV Chameleon should return the hooked value created by AV Uncapper, but I will look into it.
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kiss my weasel
 
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Post » Wed May 09, 2012 6:57 am

I might be willing to do an ingame menu, but only if there was some way to save the changes.
I was actually thinking of people being able to make a compatibility esp rather than asking for all that work, though I'm a noob at modding so will be quiet now :smile:
I'm personally okay with editiing the ini, Recommended ini settings are fine.
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Sanctum
 
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Post » Tue May 08, 2012 5:14 pm

GetAV Chameleon should return the hooked value created by AV Uncapper, but I will look into it.
AV Uncapper does not change your chameleon stat itself. It changes the way the stat is used in the vanilla detection formula. Since SDR replaces the vanilla detection formula, you will not see the effects of AV Uncapper on chameleon while SDR is installed.
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Rudy Paint fingers
 
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