Sneaking magical bonus? : V - Skyrim

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:35 pm

Ehh. already strong enough w/o a multiplier.

» Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:33 am

Magic is pretty powerful on it's own especially with stacking effects.

It would just make magic more unbalanced than it already is and really isn't all that important to add the multipliers anyway.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:31 pm

The actual thought behind it makes no sense. Wouldn't a spell hurt the same no matter what? I understand melee stealth attacks because you are technically supposed to be stabbing them in the back without their guard up. But for spells its always the same damage being done.

I could see it only working with trap/mine spells if they are introduced as a spell-type modifier.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:02 pm

I realize why you dont get extra damage for sneak bonus. If you hit someone with energy sneak does not matter. Because it does not matter where you hit them or how you hit them once they r hit by a magic attack it uses its magic to take effect. however bows and swords are much more physical and if u sneak up on an opponent they r not ready to take that hit and ur much more likely to aim precisely at vital organs.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:33 pm

I think of a mage as a http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GlassCannon. They are supposed to fry their enemies with magical death. Adding in the ability to sneak up on characters and get a multiplier to damage that is already high enough to make wearing only robes inviting would remove the weakness of mages. Add in the ability to become invisible quiet easily, and there is no stopping a stealthy mage. It is just unbalanced.

Sneak is very useful for a mage glass cannon in Oblivion, you can get an overview of the battlefield and choose how to engage the enemies, close together and you use frenzy/ control or area effect, far apart and you can kill them one and one.
My pure mage prefer at target spells, yes they do less damage however it enables you to kill the enemy well before he reach you.
Perhaps it’s better to change the visibly of spells, a fireball will alarm everybody in the room, however if you are well hidden they might not find you, more subtle effects like weakness or command creature should be less visible.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:03 pm

Hi!

I think it should only give a sneak bonus if you are invisible and you use a contact attack so you realy surprise the target.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:41 pm

Uh... wether I get hit by a fireball without expecting it or while I am expecting it isn't really gonna change the fact I'm on fire?

Thats not true. Ok so lets say i throw a baseball at you. You see me begin to throw it. You say to yourself "damn im about to get hit with a baseball i better embrace for impact or dodge it" this is the non-sneak way. If i throw a baseball at you and your back is facing me and you dont know im there im going to hit you with out you attempting to protect yourself. Making the damage have a bigger impact or in this case the baseball hitting you harder.

Sorry if i confused you haha :icecream:

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:26 am

I realize why you dont get extra damage for sneak bonus. If you hit someone with energy sneak does not matter. Because it does not matter where you hit them or how you hit them once they r hit by a magic attack it uses its magic to take effect. however bows and swords are much more physical and if u sneak up on an opponent they r not ready to take that hit and ur much more likely to aim precisely at vital organs.

Like i explained above you guys arent understanding the whole concept.

Ok this is what sneak is generally is : Not knowing something is coming so you cant attempt to protect yourself making it a SUPRISE attack. Sneak isn't always about hitting someone in a "certain" spot. Sneak isnt pressure points or they dont count if you hit someone in a vital organ. :toughninja:

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:25 pm

Only if enemies get the same critical hit when they lob spells your way when you didn't see it coming. I'll suspect that we'll be dying a lot

Thats the point :celebration: . We need a challenge.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:39 pm

Thats not true. Ok so lets say i throw a baseball at you. You see me begin to throw it. You say to yourself "damn im about to get hit with a baseball i better embrace for impact or dodge it" this is the non-sneak way. If i throw a baseball at you and your back is facing me and you dont know im there im going to hit you with out you attempting to protect yourself. Making the damage have a bigger impact or in this case the baseball hitting you harder.

A baseball is different to a fireball though, surely? A baseball hurts on impact, whereas i'd say the fireball was designed to hurt with the bit after impact (when it burns you to a crisp).
Can you really prepare yourself to be burnt alive? So I wouldn't have thought the damage would be bigger because a fireball wouldn't necassarily 'impact'.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:34 pm

you forget that magic users have the bonus of CHAMELEON so they can always be unseen while casting, chameleon in general is game breaking IMO.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:52 pm

A baseball is different to a fireball though, surely? A baseball hurts on impact, whereas i'd say the fireball was designed to hurt with the bit after impact (when it burns you to a crisp).
Can you really prepare yourself to be burnt alive? So I wouldn't have thought the damage would be bigger because a fireball wouldn't necassarily 'impact'.

Exactly, that's what I meant to say in the first place. There is just no defensive move you can do against being on fire/freezing/etc. The baseball is basically the arrow. If I see it coming, I'll automatically duck and hold my arms in front of my face, making myself a smaller target and protecting vital organs. I'll still be hit, but if that guy was aiming at my brain, maybe he only hit my arm now. But with magic, it doesn't matter whether he hits my arm, head, heart or left foot, I'll take the magical damage anyhow.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:59 pm

Voted no. Also I'd like to see it gone for archery as well (even if it's one of my favorite skills), unless they can couple it to distance. The multiplier you get should be coupled to how close you are, while sneaking (sneaking indicates you have time to setup the shot). Only when you're really close do you get a multiplier, and then only against armor (being able to hit that weak spot) - not animals. Sneak for magic doesn't make sense at all for me, as I tend to think of some sort of preparation to cast stance revealing yourself.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:37 pm

On the part of lobbing a baseball; that's still physical damage. Nothing magical about it.

Now if you had drenched some kind of foam/cotton ball in gasoline and set it on fire, it could be classified as a fireball. And you wouldn't want to deflect it as the gasoline would simply be squished out of the ball on impact, engulf your body and make you run like a headless chicken regardless if you saw it coming or not

» Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:10 am

Sneak is very useful for a mage glass cannon in Oblivion, you can get an overview of the battlefield and choose how to engage the enemies, close together and you use frenzy/ control or area effect, far apart and you can kill them one and one.
My pure mage prefer at target spells, yes they do less damage however it enables you to kill the enemy well before he reach you.
Perhaps it’s better to change the visibly of spells, a fireball will alarm everybody in the room, however if you are well hidden they might not find you, more subtle effects like weakness or command creature should be less visible.

I'm all for some spells being less visible. Things like the illusion spells or weakness spells (as you said). I just don't want mages, with their potential to be invisible almost indefinitely, getting bonuses to their damage.

you forget that magic users have the bonus of CHAMELEON so they can always be unseen while casting, chameleon in general is game breaking IMO.

Also, this. Chameleon should be difficult to obtain, especially 100% chameleon.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:43 pm

I prefer visual casting, and/or stances. but when I think about it, yeah sure, illusion makes sense to be invisible. I mean, an illusionist today bases his very tricks by not revealing what he does

So how about different stuff for different schools?
Illusion - Just a twist of the arm?
Cunjuration - Maybe a dance?

Destruction - Animation "pulling" the resource from the sky shaping it during the cast? Grab the fireball from the sky before throwing it.
Alteration - The good old glow?
Mysticism - Animation "pulling" the resource from his inner self?
Restoration - Animation "grabbing" resources from the natural elements around him?

Dunno, going a bit crazy here

» Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:18 am

Yeah, sure. Sneaky mages. Surely nobody will see you when you cast that bright fireball spell of your's.
Sneak+magic doesn't make much sense to me, so no.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:59 pm

Yeah, sure. Sneaky mages. Surely nobody will see you when you cast that bright fireball spell of your's.
Sneak+magic doesn't make much sense to me, so no.

You need to look into those Nightblades, using illusion magic to help them assassinate people.

» Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:52 am

Definitely no. Besides magic already being overpowered, it just makes no sense whatsoever.

If someone lights me on fire, it shouldn't matter whether they were sneaky about it or not.

» Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:58 am

You need to look into those Nightblades, using illusion magic to help them assassinate people.

Yah Nightblades... Im sure they also think its rediculous to use magic for sneak attacks. Hence the blade part of name.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:41 pm

Yah Nightblades... Im sure they also think its rediculous to use magic for sneak attacks. Hence the blade part of name.

Yeah, they use magic for sneak attacks. Invisibility. Not all magic is a fireball.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 5:46 pm

Yeah, they use magic for sneak attacks. Invisibility. Not all magic is a fireball.

Ah I c thought you were suggesting that they were using spells to sneak attack or something.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:36 am

3 seconds fire, ice, shock and whatever else on touch with 5 seconds of invisibility. Spells like that are the great joy of being able to make your own spells. Sneak, use that spell, wait for the DoT to expire and cast again. The overlap in invisibility will keep you undetected. Great way to wipe a dungeon, no bonus sneak damage required.

» Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:36 am

3 seconds fire, ice, shock and whatever else on touch with 5 seconds of invisibility. Spells like that are the great joy of being able to make your own spells. Sneak, use that spell, wait for the DoT to expire and cast again. The overlap in invisibility will keep you undetected. Great way to wipe a dungeon, no bonus sneak damage required.

hopefully things like this are not allowed in TES5. i'm sick of godmode obtained through 1000's of easy methods.

» Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:48 pm

I like it when intelligent gameplay and character/spell building reward the player in dividends, personally. Nerfted, but not nuked, please.