I have to say: I know.

It would be funny if the .45-70 stuck within the coconut shell instead of making a nice explosion......

I've run a spreadsheet with all the ballistics info I can get for these rounds and when I sort them, no matter what metric I sort them by, they don't come out this way. I've even played with a bunch of formlae to combine stats like ((energy/100) + TKO) and weird things like that, but I still can't get them to list in that order.

-Gunny confused


We've found that coconuts @100y very nicely simulate a human head @200y, a very moderate range at which to shoot militay rifles at. From personal experience I can safely report:

.30-06, .308, .303R, 7.92x57mm and 5.56mm all put nice neat little holes through coconuts without blowing them to pieces.

7.62x54mmR and 7.7x58mm both consistantly blow the coconuts in half.

And a slug from by 12ga Auto-5 makes it easy to make pina coladas. Just exploded them to little pieces.

None of the handgun rounds seem to have the power to go through and through, but we haven't shot anything bigger than a .45 at them yet. Yet................This year we'll be adding 7.5x55mm Swiss to the list. I'll let you know how it goes.

-Gunny happily reliving good memories..........

Tbh i kinda find it ironic ppl wanted the sniper nerfed now we want it *fixed* life loves to screw with ppl it seems.Anyways if obsidian's patch quality tells us anythign its best to keep the nerfing out lol.

Gunny i got to ask are you like trully old or just a inside joke i dont understand.IF you are i think i see a flaming bag of ,i mean a bag of candy at your front door>Hides lol*

May I suggest that, if all of your poll participants say the same thing, but you can't massage the numbers to agree with the unanimous vote of participants.... throw out the numbers. It's a game. Playability is more important than scientific accuracy here. Pistol rounds deliver good damage (wide wound channel) at short range (inaccurate) but have difficulty penetrating armor (DT x1.5+) due to their low sectional density. Rifle rounds deliver very good damage (fragmentatin/tumbling, hydrostatic shock) at long range (high accuracy), and are good at penetrating armor (DT -n), but are heavier and more expensive than pistol rounds. And the pistol caliber carbines are somewhere in the middle.

IIRC there is no PDW caliber in NV.

And I believed standard round nose pistol rounds are(and should) used to scale out DT; which IIRC doesn't have more or less penetration than flat nose magnum.

I am very heavily leaning towards just about what you've said here. Not completely throwing out the numbers, but blending the SCIENTIFIC! method with the observed.

-Gunny out.

:P It must be slightly vexing to be in this situation; having spent so much time cooking the numbers to make it work that way.

Yeah, it must be a chore getting all the numbers to line up.

BTW, I still have not managed to pick up This Machine. Contreras needs another 24 hrs to himself, so I'm trying to find another weapon with 0.5 spread.

For a patch/DLC though, anyone think it would be possible to add a Cowboy-like perk that benefits the military weapons? Just a generic perk that either increases the DAM or adds a -DT bypass (my preferred) to all weapons that use 5mm (tis' a fictional round right?), 5.56mm, .308 and .50 cal? I'm all for realism, but I think hoping for unique -DT bypass numbers for each ammo type in a patch is a bit optimistic.

Just needed more salt.

I actually have decided that the formula (energy/80)+TKO is getting me pretty close. The only real question was what proportion of energy vs. size seemed right to me. Anything with more energy makes the velocity take things out of whack and anything with more TKO makes the bullet diameter take things out of whack. I think after I add effects to ammo for construction/design, it'll probalby even out real nice. I must admit I'm burning through a lot of cigars and Beck's Dark, though......... :celebration:


How about the "Grunt Perk - Your advanced military training has enabled you to handle modern military weapons with greater effeciency. Dam +25%."
Applies to 10mm pistol/SMG, Sniper, LMG, Service Rifle and Assault/Marksman Carbine.

OR

"Citizen Soldier - You are a real WWII fanatic and your fascination with WWII weapons enables you to deal more destruction with them. Dam +25%"
Applies to 9mm Pistol/SMG, This Machine, Automatic Rifle, Hunting Rifle.

-Gunny out.

Fix a shandy wall with another shandy wall isn't a good idea.

I rather the "military" perk improves soft spec(i.e. internal DT bypass, reload speed, spread reduction etc) than flat out damage.

I agree. I was trying to use a little satire there. :hubbahubba:

I have a topic about a perk for bolt-action weapons.Take a look at it when ya can.

I have a topic about shooting laser out of PC's rare.

Seriously, leveler rifles are better than their military counterpart before either Handload or Cowboy, and the combine allow them to jump 2 tiers up.

Yes,i know.
The solve would be to improve .308 weapons.

Maybe a fast remedy would be to edit the current " sniper" perk (which is almost useless since snipers never use vats ) instead of creating another one , then give it " +25% damage with scoped weapons" , with a requirement of 8 perception , 70 guns , 45 sneak .
Or maybe increase critical damage instead of basic damage , would force snipers to have high luck and choose critical chance perks to become uber-sniperz , well just a thought

Awesome, so the Trail Carbine got a boost of yet another 25%.

I just check FO3 Hunting Rifle's damage and it was 25, while Sniper Rifle is 40. Sniper Rifle's pre-patch damage of 60 is actually less of a jump compare to FO3.

Minus "scoped", plus "bolt action rifles". Snipers don't use handguns, and the cowboy carbines already have a +25% perk.

"bolt action rifles" doesn't help the sniper rifle either.

Make it work for all weapons with large scopes then. That would include the sniper/hunting/anti-material rifles and the MMC and exclude the trail carbine and la longue (they have medium scopes).

+20% crit damage like The Professional seems like a good idea. That would prevent making them being overly effective at point blank range, while making the Sniper perk useful again.

Please read http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1157044-sniper-rifle-vs-the-cowboy-round-2/page__view__findpost__p__16973343

Oh yea i had forgotten about the trail carbine ... good point Valkebus .

Then we'd need to exclude the trail carbine somehow , perhaps make this new "sniper" perk apply only to dedicated sniping rifles , like the bolt actions .


I think personnally that the sniper perk should be overhauled (as it's useless as it is ) , this way there would be 3 equally attractive types of characters using guns , the shotgun/cow-boy types , the sneaky sharpshooter/snipers types , and the fully automated characters with assault rifles and automatic weapons .

That'd mean "cow boy" perk is for cow-boy with +25% damage , "sniper" perk is for snipers ,with say +3% critical chance and +30% critical damage with bolt action scoped weapons , and then the perk "commando" could be edited to buff the smg and automatic weapons , on the model of "shotgun surgeon " , adding -5 DT for instance

Well if it was up to me i'd do that , but perhaps there are some drawbacks i didn't think of .

Sniper perk feels undervalued, 1.) because VATS is pointless for actual sniping since it's based on distance to target more than weapon accuracy, thus bonus to hit in VATS is ... not that great and 2.) because chance to hit the head in VATS is already way higher than it really should be, and even without Sniper, you'll probably be shooting for the head 95% of the time anyway.

Halve the basic chance to hit the head, increase the Sniper perk's bonus-to-hit to 50%, and have it only apply to precision rifles.

I dunno, I don't think the Sniper perk should have anything to do with VATS - the range is just too short. And the hunting rifle and the AMR absolutely eat through Action points like crazy. VATS should be a medium/short range, multi-target tool - and nothing there applies to the sniper.

A better name would be "Headhunter" or "Marksmen" or something. Snipers do chest shots probably more than head shots - simply going for the body brings about many tactical advantages (higher hit %, faster engagement, high lethality), with the trade-off of not instantly killing your target.

The head-hunting sniper is likely something to be glorified by Hollywood and not indicative of real life. Having somebody's head explode out of no where is arguably more dramatic than a body shot.

Hey i never wanted it nerfed,but the 5x crit multiplyer was just plain [censored].
The sniper perk in my book is useless.Im not a vats person,since i have trigger discpline.

I agree combine with JSP and 5x Crit it was dam overpowered, but it is something to do with JSP and FO3 legacy; if JSP is in line with .44SWC it wouldn't be as bad (but dull).