There is a scope in the game, called the SNOOP-R Scope.

There's at least one scope, and at least a few different red dot and ironsights type attachments for your weapons as well.

I'm thinking we'll probably see multiple scope options as well.

EDIT: Also, Spec Ops pack has Greeneye Scope (which I finally pre-ordered today!)

Didn't you see the attachments list I posted near the top?

That's a popular, but limited view of team mentality. A lot of people are suggesting that "teamwork" requires people to physically interact in some way. I can do all of your second example without recieving a buff from my team, and maintain that distance from my team without ever going back to get ammo, health, or buffs. It's then up to the particular memeber of the team that gives out said buffs to track me down and buff me if he feels the need, and it's my choice to go without if he does not. The buffs are a "forced" team mechanic.



I did know what you were getting at, but the first thing of note is that most snipers don't recognize quickscopers and trickshooters as snipers, which is why I pointed back to the unscoped weapons. The second thing of note is that with the SMART system the game is inviting that type of player in (whether or not they'll be successful is a different issue entirely) and they may well be valuable in some way, shape, or form. You not buffing them or telling your team not to buff them because you have yet to find that value makes you a bad teammate.



See that's where I have trouble with "pure". What leads to the assumption that a pure sniper is only about the killing and not the objective, and what leads to the assumption that killing is not helping with the objective?

It's an 8 man team, limiting the number of players harassing your team is a huge help. The amount of XP I get for it is irrelevant, that's my decision. If the team isn't trying to do the objective then "killing" is a problem (a team issue), but if even one person is trying to do the objective (because only one person can be actively doing an objective at any given time) then killing becomes important. Certainly there are places where said kills will be more effective, but unless you're sitting there over the snipers shoulder while he's making the kills you don't really know how important they are.

The goal of Brink is to get everybody playing the part they're comfortable with for the good of the team, that means killers recognizing how to make their skills more valuable to the team than just racking up unspecific kills, as well as objective players recognizing the value that the killer brings to the team and helping him make the most of it for the team.

One of my goals as an operative is to harass. Keep them from what ever they are trying to do.

So true

You make some very interesting points here. Let me just say that I am not against sniping, or killing in general, this IS an FPS after all, not chores-with-parkour.

Admittedly my argument has strayed from the topic of sniping and more to bad teamwork. I definitely agree with you on the point of unspecific kills, as that's the core of my argument.

At the end of the day I think it will have to come down to a case-by-case anolysis. You can't lump all snipers in as bad team players, just as you can't immediately assume a sniper will do his job perfectly. It will have to be up to the judgement of the player in question's teammates to decide whether to support him or tell him to wise up (made harder by the lack of general VoIP).

Really, as long as everyone is working together and helping, I don't mind how they go about it. And yes, refusing to support a teammate because you don't agree with what he is doing is probably poor form, and I don't have to work with them again after the match is over.

Cheers.

I would personally LOVE to have a good sniper in my Brink clan, but good snipers are hard to come by, and I think with the rate of movement in Brink, being a good sniper will require even more skill. I personally disagree with SD's decision to prevent a sniper round to the head from being a one hit KO...as much as I hate one hit KOs I feel like if a sniper hits me in the head, he deserves the kill. But I trust that they know what they are doing.

We all must trust in our beloved overlords at SD. :spotted owl:

Good snipers are hard to come by.

I think they have fairly balanced this fact by making the Long rifles light weapons. So the fastest bodytype has the ability to knock down a large chunk of even the heavy's health.

I think the fundamental question that we're pondering here is not "are the guns balanced", but "does Brink basically lack sniping as a viable play style, and if so, is that bad?"

I do think that long rifles are going to be most effective as counters to Heavies because they don't move as quickly or as complexly. I'm wondering how effective scoped sniping can be against characters that are sliding and jumping around, but then, if bullets are hitscan like they were in ET:QW, it'll be easier to snap-shot mobile targets than in, say, Battlefield games.

Agreed.

I think the drawback of having so many people that like to play FPS games but are more "mainstream" is that most don't take the time to learn the value of the various types of players and how to spot a good one vs a bad one. So just like everywhere else, you end up with people "hating" others because they don't understand.

And I hope I didn't offend with my "bad teammate" comment, I realize it was rather blunt but I couldn't think of any better way to make that particular point. I assume you won't be a bad teammate based on how you're currently approaching these issues, and I dislike trickshooters quite a bit, I just think with the SMART system they may have a place if as nothing more than a good distraction.

I'll be using the Drugnov 'Sniper' rifle in a more offensive role, with a COGA and the Engineer class.

I think thats one of the problems of the sniper in shootergames, only few play snipers because playing sniper does only suite some guys in the way its meant to be played
All the soldier guys with their SMGs and ARs and stuff only see how they get killed by snipers and then think "they are OP" but dont see how hard it maybe is to hit the head of a guy running and dodging.
The different playstyle i think makes the sniper suspicious and then a target of hate for a vast amount of players becauuse a lot of people never see the otherside of the medal, that you are canonfodder for every guy with an AR or an smg if hes not on a long range distance.

Not to mention all your teammates that think you're not doing anything and stab you in the back (see MAG).

SD is doing a great job of inviting all the styles to play, I just hope there's enough there so that everybody gets a chance to see what makes the other guy "just as valid" as a player.

From some part of dev interviews about the sniper, it sounded for me a bit like "people dont like snipers so [censored] snipers" and thats just the wrong attitude, sniping is a play style like all the others too.

i hate snipers in FPS games. im glad this wont be a sniper fest. at least i hope it wont (it shouldnt with the game mechanics)

99% of game snipers are just useless at FPS games and hide so they get a good kdr. im glad brink seems to trying to eliminate this. i have no issues with our side having 1 sniper if he really does watch my back and works for the team (a concept the vast majority of 'snipers' cannot do)

I think it's more a case of "Our game does this and this, ands snipers don't fit with that paradigm, so we'll try to eliminate sniping in our game."
Not that you can't snipe, you just can't one hit kill people as regularly as in some other games where sniping is more viable.

From what I can see (as someone who intends to BE a Sniper in Brink), they AREN'T eliminating Sniping altogether.

They're eliminating the viability of a sniper role as a position for less skilled players, and those who intend to camp with a high-damage weapon and not have to try. And they're eliminating KDR so people who want to worry about their stats will worry about the stats the game actually tracks for them. Which means they're going to be team players, because that's what the game wants.

There's a Richard Ham interview where he refers to a sniper within a situation as an * sniper and a lot of people are using that as the basis of the "there won't be snipers", where as there are multiple comments from other devs that are counter to the idea.




The majority of FPS players aren't particularly useful and don't understand how teams work, you're categorizing snipers based on a problem with the whole player base. I could say that "99% of run and gun players are useless because they just run around giving away their position and dying a lot, and thus don't know what teamwork is." just as easily. Most people have no idea what a sniper is doing for their team and simply assume that because they're not "around" they're not helping.



Except that they've basically said that their game is for everybody, and it has tools for everybody to play any role. It's a portion of the community that believes, for whatever reason, that snipers are out and won't be viable.




This is a good evaluation of what SD is attempting, based on what they have said and done.

'nuff said.
http://www.gamerzines.com/pc/news/brink-snipers-frustrated.html

"Nuff said" what? Those were quotes in reply to a question they didn't print. The basic gist of what they are in response to

In an interview with GameArena, Brink's creative director explained why the Operative class shouldn't be confused with other shooters' sniper or spy archetypes.

is not a sniper specifc issue. It's a defined class issue.

Around 2 minutes of his interview http://www.gametrailers.com/video/something-for-brink/711462 you can listen to what he has to say on it. It's about OHKs, he uses a particular instance of "sniper" as his example. While it is clear that he is a R&G gamer (look how excited he gets about running around hacking people with his knife), what he says at around 3 minutes (including the words "Our Sniper Rifles") is a summation of how Brink is including what are "OHK types" in other games.

That is not an anti sniper rant that many have used in support of the idea that snipers won't exist, that's an explanation of how a game mechanic has been adjusted to allow more people in.

He emphasises that it doesn't support CAMPING ONE-SHOT SNIPERS. NOT that it doesn't support ANY snipers.

A good mobile sniper will be an asset in Brink. A patient camping sniper will get no XP, frustration, and a high (but completely ignored) KDR. Then ragequit. Then sell the game on to someone who will appreciate it.

I think they have their priorities straight, personally. Those patient, camping snipers may be useful in reality, but not to the extent they are in games, and they'll always be outclassed by a mobile counter-sniper. And that will be what we see happening in Brink.

I agree and disagree. A patient sniper is going to have just as much to do (and is unlikely to get frustrated at the lack of XP) and will be just as useful. It's the guys that don't want to be a part of the objective (sniper or not) that are getting cut out of the equation.

I give you the example of a defending team getting wiped except for the sniper. That "patient camping sniper" who set up with eyes on the objective could hold the position until his team respawns and then they can make their move again. A sniper that stays in one place to do a particular job (a patient sniper) isn't the bad guy, as long he keeps his team's benefit in mind.

The XP is there to guide those that don't know, a player that understands team and strategy doesn't need to be told what to do. If I don't get XP because I'm back shooting guys as they flank my team, that's not me being a bad teammate even though I'm not getting major XP for it.

By "patient camping sniper" I mean the kind of player who will find ONE spot they like and wait for someone to come their way.

Willingness to move to a better position, or from one that's been compromised, is a necessary skill. And one a lot of FPS snipers don't have.

I have a feeling this is a semantics debate more than anything. People mean different things when they type "sniper," which is making it difficult to communicate. Thats what I'm seeing, at any rate.

As far as I know, Brink is not going to be a game that encourages people to camp in one spot and try to score OHK's on people randomly running by. Doing this is going to give you little in the way of XP, and Xp is the only way the game measures your success in a match. If K/D ratios were involved, this type of strategy would be more viable, but Brink is going in another direction.

It will, however, be possible to use rifles to shoot enemies from a distance, and with the right specs this might be a viable and effective tactic.