I'm excited about everything on this list except their view on Sniping.

If they're going to Borderlands/Fallout route for sniping ( which it looks like they are) they should go all the way.

This is how I see it:

If someone is using a high-powered bolt action rifle with a 6x Scope attached and no damage buffers then...

Lights should die by 1 head shot, 2 body shots

Mediums 2 head shots, 3 body shots

Heavys 3 head shots, 4 body shots

and if they're using a semi-auto they should all go up either .5 or 1 in the amount needed accordingly.

I just don't agree with their view on Sniping at all. Players who use snipers in true team-base games ( MW2 isn't a true team based game, hate to break it to ya :/ ) support their team by calling out enemies on the other side of the battlefield and taking out enemies that their teammates would have had to get close and personal with and leave themselves to be overwhelmed in enemy territory.

My Prime example, Battefield Bad Co. 2: On Defense, a good Recon(Sniper) can be the difference in winning or losing an objective. If they mark enemies and take out rival snipers, the others can keep the enemy at bay on the front-lines. On Offense, A good Recon will do the same thing but will take it one step farther, go behind enemy lines. With the ability to plant C4, call in Mortar Strikes, and blend into background; playing a Recon in Bad Co. 2 can take down objectives faster than a Engineer or Soldier.

All in all, this what feared from Brink when I saw early videos. Even in games like Bad Co. 2 where it takes half of a assault rifle clip to the chest to kill a enemy, a simple shooter trope like "Head shot kills with sniper-rifles" keep balance and overall show skill ( ex. Bullets Drop over distance in BC2 and requires actual aiming). I get that they want that "In your face action" but something like sniping shouldn't be nerfed because of that. I mean what they're doing is more RPG than shooter at this point. Which is why they should think of Brink as a Multiplayer Shooter first, and a RPG second.

That's because you are approaching it like the game even has sniping - it doesn't. The game has long range rifles, NOT sniper rifles.


This is a bogus example, sine the recon class is not a necessarily a sniper class (older battlefield games actually had a "sniper" class) The recon's main perk (motion mines) are only helpful if your are within range to use them effectively, which you can't do sniping from a mountain 2 miles away.The point of the motion mines, is so teammates can spot enemies and take them out, so using them effectively, makes calling out enemies and sniping, pretty pointless. The only thing "snipers" are really good for in BC2, is counter sniping, and calling mortars. When I play recon, it's VSS or SVU with a 4x scope - I never use the bolt action sniper rifles, and I am really effective at the role.


It is a MP shooter first - that's a main point of the game - to get player to play online, and actually enjoy it - nobody enjoys getting taken out by a sniper rifle on the opposite side of the map. The reason they treat sniping like they do, isn't because they want "in your face action," it's because sniping is one of those things where

1. Everyone and their mother's tries to do
2. Only a handful are actually good at

Brink is all about teamplay, and by making it so sniping isn't as powerful (and through map design and making kills give low xp), you eliminate the players who will run off and just snipe the entire mach, and you make playing as a team that much more effective.

BC2's "objective" gamemodes, are nothing more than cleverly disguised team deathmatch - Brink is actually about completing objectives.

so funny when people think about objective based shooters they come and throw bc2 on us.
wich is nothing like brink at all.

oh, and where a sniper rifle is a 1hitkill headshot, because such is so in real life, they do not think about a 1hitkill assaultrifle headshot, wich is also a 1hitkill in reallife, and a smg and a pistol can make those 1hitkills in real life too.

so "nerfing" the sniper rifle is actually something that should have been done a long time.
it would only require to reduce the range of every other gun, and that would make pistol and smg a bit useless.
unless the map is huge enough to make that too realistic.
and then you would need to add a couple of hundred players to make that too realistic and...

too much anyway, but brink is brother vs brother, when you kill someone, you can see the white in his eyes.
it's up close, and personal.
OHK's with a longrange sniperrifle don't fit in the description, so they took them out and put a short rifle in its stead.

and this, incidentally, also makes sure there aren't any snipers running around quickscoping everyone

B)



I can't stand that. And those who do that think they've got real skills as they're on the frontline using sniping. They're NOT sniping, they're looking for a OHK weapon.

Not to mention there are no leaderboards so people trying to buff there k/d by sitting back sniping or people that are not playing as a team because they are worries about there K/D is thrown out the window and makes that useless so people focus more on workign as a team and being up in the action instead of sitting back trying to stat pad.

That is quite a lot of information, very useful information. It gave me a much clearer idea of the game in general, so thumbs up to you, for all of it.

I only have one thing I'd like to point out in relation to this subject (the following qoute):

Don't want to be nitpicking, but where exactly did you get the wisdom that the controls will be like call of duty? Did someone who is related to the team of Brink mention this somehere? Since, in that case, I may have missed it. Or, if not a statement by the Brink team, then is this personal input / a personal suggestion? If so, you'd purely be advertising another random game right now on the subject of controls. It's a little odd to give any game credit for the subject of controls, especially when it is false credit. I do get your point, but you should know that Call of duty-though a game most gamers will know-did not invent such controls. You could've just said that the controls will be your standard controls for a shooter these days, rather than giving a random popular shooter credit for it in comparison. They are just controls, man. I'm not giving a populair restaurant chain credit whenever I eat, either.

Anyway, aside from that minor nitpicky comment (sorry, just have to do that when something such as call of duty is being used in the same post as something as promising as Brink) which may not even apply to you, I like what you do for the Brink community and it surely keeps me on edge for the game. Both you and the official Brink team, rock on!

I know it doesn't, I've seen the weapons, but any rifle that has a high damage and recoil, with a slow rounds per second is pretty much a sniper rifle once you attach the scope.



Recon is useful beyond motion mines. the problem with motion mines is the fact you have to toss them into an area, which if you're lucky, is full of enemies to walk by it. I pretty much use every sniper under the rainbow when I play recon now because I rather go into battle than stay behind and stand in one spot, which I understand is why they didn't put emphasis on sniping. But the main gripe I have with there no head shot rule is that it sounds like they're nerfing head shots for every gun especially long rifles.



1. Only happens when sniping takes no skill ( MW2)
2. Those who are good most likely do more than sit in the back and pop head shots ( I know I do atleast)


I have to disagree because people will still try to camp, still try go for kills alone, and still think of themselves before the team. I mean, in Gears of War and Uncharted 2, there maybe 2, 1 or even 0 sniper rifles on the map, but that doesn't stop people from going lone wolf, or waiting for the rest of the team get wrecked before picking off the scraps. Cooperation in video games comes from either sheer force or players who want to fight as a team.



I see where you're coming from about BC2's objectives, but really now? Isn't killing a main part of any first person shooter? You can say Brink is nothing but a cleverly disguised Team Death match when, " The Attacking team must kill enemies to reach objectives, while the Defending team must protect the objectives by killing enemies". Deathmatch has been the basic layer that objective gametypes grow from.
Also, I don't know who you play with, but every game of Rush and Conquest I play, my team is constantly attacking or defending points with battle plans.
And I believe the ticket system can keep matches from turning into a "deathmatch", especially when you're On the Offensive.

Well, if I put a scope on my Grenade Launcher, I'll remember that...



No, it happens in practically EVERY game that has sniper rifle. Like the sea of useless snipers on BC2.


And they can continue to snipe in Brink - just with no one-shot kills. Didn't you say something about spotting and calling out targets? They can still do that. They just might be getting a lot of assists instead of kills.



And these people will fail. They will either return to a game they are good at it, or continue to fail in Brink. The key thing to notice is, the number of these types of players, will be less than say BC2 or MW2.


"Picking off scraps" is one tactic that "snipers" in Brink will be using - they will either be killing the weak, or weakening players for teammates to finish off.




No, and here's why -

BC2 is based around tickets - if your team can kill 75 people before they complete the objective, you win, putting a very high emphasis on kill and avoid being killed, like TDM. Also, kills give what, like 50xp per kill?That's a descent amount of xp. And there are global leaderboards, and K/D ratio. which further have players emphasizing on kills.

Brink is based around time limits - your team could kill 1000 players, if there's still time left, it doesn't mean anything. Also, killing awards one of the lowest forms of XP, especially kills in the middle of nowhere, unlike BC2, which gives a generous xp reward for killing. To put in perspective - healing someone in Brink, will give more xp than killing someone - much more. And there's no global leaderboards.

So no one-shot kills + low xp for kills + no global leaderboards + maps not designed for long range combat = significantly less snipers, and less practicality to even have them.


They're not "nerfing" anything, it's just played differently. It's comparing Quake 3 and and CoD - they are both shooters, but they play completely different.

And I wish you luck with that sir...



This was true when the game first came out. And unless you're playing BC2 in a parallel universe where everyone is amazing at sniping, It's rare to see more than 4 snipers snipers on a single team now-a-days. games where sniping isn't just pointing a scope at a body weed out the weaklings fairly quick and the weaklings who still try suffer by getting no where. I mean you even said it your self,





Let's be honest, do you snipe JUST to spot targets and go for assists? You snipe to act as an overseer for your comrades and to take out enemies they can't. When you cant take out an enemy you give out there location, or if a teammate is in a tight situation, try to take the weight off of them by taking out of couple of enemies for them. I've done it multiple times when trying to destroy objectives in BC2.



You may be right, we'll just have to see when the game comes out. Brink might have explosive spammers instead of campers




I agree with this philosphy, I just don't agree with the reasoning behind headshots. Like I mentioned earlier, if they make it so the required amount of headshots is different for each weight class I'll be fine.






Well I can almost guarantee there will be leaderboards by the time this game comes out. People like to compare the skill to others.
Also, that's the defensive team completes their objective: Protecting the objective by depleting the enemies reinforcements



A time limit isn't any different than Tickets. "Oh, we have countless reinforcements ready for battle but because the sun is setting we should leave." In fact, if handle improperly, its worse than a ticket system. I remember when Gears of War 2 first got its EXP system. People would go into King of the Hill matches and treat them like team deathmatch because; even though the XP value for kills in KotH were way less than in Warzone, in 20 minutes you could almost double the score of a KotH match and easily Triple a Warzone match if you spent the entire time killing each other.

Also there are times where I've scored over 3000 points in BC2 by playing medic only with reviving and healing making up almost 80% of my score.



I think SMART will play a bigger role in less snipers than maps and leaderbaords.

Even on maps in BC2 where the objectives are close to each other and there aren't vast areas for sniping I still find it quite easy to get the edge on the opponent

Again, I'm not a fan of One-Shot kills ( its why I don't play MW2 all the time), I just believe that there's a reason why high powered rifles kill in one head shot in almost all successful shooters.



I agree that games can play completely different, but there's a reason why headshots and sniper rifles are synonymous. A faster kill is the reward for being able to get a single bullet into some weakling's head from a distance more than 20 feet away.

Like I said, if they just turn it into a system where health is the determining factor for a headshot I'm fine. That means I can pick-off lights, leave Mediums for dead, and assist in killing a Heavy.

Info on leaderboards, stats and voice chat from Richard Ham:
“I'm really sensitive to the dangers of introducing things in the game that people can obsess over, to the point of ruining the game for others, and we're very careful to identify and avoid them. For instance, global leaderboards for stuff like k/d ratios and what not: bad idea, since they disccourage players from taking chances and actually doing what's necessary to help. So bam! Not having them. I know other games do, and they're kind of standard, but screw it, not the right thing for Brink.

Same is true for XP. In any case where it introduces whoring behavior, it needs to change. I'll give you an example. One of our many types of objectives (ET fans will recognize this) is the classic "take the (thing) from X to Y". So we did have it set up such that while you're carrying it from X to Y, you're earning XP, because you're doing a good job and helping your team. And it's a nice feeling, seeing the XP accure as your rush along towards your goal. But obviously, that lead to "hmm, I think I'll hide in a corner for awhile and let the XP rack up for awhile, and then deliver it", which was bad. And so we changed it to the much more reasonable "you get your XP when you've successfully delivered it, and the faster you did so, the more you'll earn". So people who really want the XP are encouraged to deliver the thing as quickly as possible.”

Don't be so sure on leaderboards. Also I'd avoid arguing with H0RSE.

I hope there aren't but I can already see some of my friends going " What!? No leaderboards? Lame." and some will stop playing just off of that. Sad but true.

Also I don't see the problem with arguing as long as the argument stay healthy and doesn't becoming nothing but smart remarks.

It's not sad, it's excellent. It works as a filter to weed out people like that.


I think he was advising you to not argue with me, because there is no way you will win.


I don't snipe at all- I despise it. To me, putting an emphasis on sniping is one of the things that killed FPS games, along with health regen, insta-kill melee attacks, and ironsights.

Whatever your views are on one shot kills, is irrelevant, since we already know that they aren't in the game. However, no one-shot kills is only be default - if you get a weapon buff, a one-shot kill is possible - I just don't know the statistics for buff/damage. I would assume you could kill unbuffed Lights outright maybe a buffed Light as well.

Agree KD counting people are not the kind we need.

Feel free to argue but as H0RSE's says you probably won't win.

That's weird, because there's no way I can lose.

Anyways, I wish I was in Germany right now :cryvaultboy:

i'm gonna have to start ignoring those posts of shisnopi, i feel my temper rising, if only i had a bliviongate:

in war it's about doing what you need to do, having the highest amount of kills is just a good bonus.
instead of a leaderboard, they keep track of wich team is best in doing what needs to be done.

real life sniper= people with patience who take one shot and leave.

in game? people who get headshots again and again, or run around quickscoping.
that's [censored] the whole idea of sniping, that is.

There are recons and then there are snipers. Recons can lay in the same spot for months, without even getting to shoot, there are often soldiers with snipers in squads.

having a sniper rifle doesn't necessarily make you a sniper.
can't find the link H0RSE provided about real sniper teams so...

and i would expect recons to scout O.o
not be a lazy guy and not move for months.

I'm just saying, there are combat snipers that are semi-automatic (I think) and then there are bolt snipers.

They probably scout around. I meant that they just stay in the same area and look for their target.

i think i prefer the ww2-sniper kind.
but anyways, in normal shooters it's far too easy to shoot a sniper rifle, aim for the head, bam, headshot, no bulletdrop, no wind, the gun never tends to shoot a bit more to a certain side, it's always dead-accurate.

in brink, instead of making sniping a whole lot harder, they prefer to leave sniper rifles out.
respect the choice and live with it.
if you want to snipe, there's a game out wich has a realistic snipesystem, go and try that one.

*sigh* I seriously think people are misunderstanding me.

I'm cool with their entire " No gun is powerful enough to kill in a shot" if you're talking about short rifles, SMGs, ARs, etc. The only thing I didn't like was their philosophy On HEAD SHOTS. From the sounds of it, They picked a place somewhere between TF2 and Borderlands in terms of headshots. Where at the core, guns wont kill in one head shot. Cool I understand that, it very RPG of them. But then from what H0RSE posted there will be major health differences between body types. I felt like there was a contradiction; If lights have less than 100hp ( kinda like Scouts in TF2) then why shouldn't a head shot from a high powered rifle kill them ( assuming its a medium class weapon)? Plus, trying to land a headshot on a character that's constantly moving at faster speed tan normal is already challenging and the only time they would stop is to shoot someone(or something).

But all comes down to how much extra damage a headshot will really do. If I'm playing as an Operative or a Soldier and get the drop on you with a shotgun, I expect that, unless the person is a heavy, if a person takes a complete shotgun shell to the back they're going to die. Just as if I landed 3-4 pistol rounds into your head, I expect the extra damage to be enough to kill you.

From the sound it, they want everyone to round and aim for the chest and "If you're lucky" enough to land one or two shots into their head it might do 1 or 2 hit points extra.
---------------------------------------------

Now I have a few questions:

Have they said anything about being able to change the tone of the 8 voices? I'm thinking kinda how Phantasy Star Online did it where there were 5 voices but you could change how high or deep the voice was and it actually sounded like someone's real voice still.

What are Commander-Only voices?

let's leave the hitpoints out, we're not sure how many extra dmg a headshot will do.
not sure how much dmg anything would do even, and the extra or decreased hp is still a question too i believe.(about the amount at least)

and a commander-only voice is the voice of the guy who gives orders, but he isn't really ingame

alright cool, kinda like changing the announcer in UT2004.

They are light class weapons.

I think it is too early to criticize how they do headshots, especially since we don't know the cone of fire of weapons, the hitpoints of the various builds, and the damage bonus for headshots.

I was going off of the videos. But you're right, Damage varients could be completely different by the game's release.