And in Arena you absolutely had to, it was impossible to go from town to town without using fast travel. Past games aside, it's alternative methods of fast travel we want, Morrowind style. So everyone: please stop saying "dunt want it dunt use it", because it's irrelevant to the argument.

I still think Morrowind had the best blend of fast travel and foot travel. Shoot, I'm STILL finding tombs I didn't know about. I recently started poking around Seyda Neen with distant land turned on, and for the first time in years, realized there was a shipwreck not far from there - between SN and Ebonheart. It's a bit off the beaten path, but that was a cool find.

On the flip side, some quests are time limited, so wandering around on foot isn't a wise move. In those cases, use the fast travel options. In Morrowind, the only way to get to certain places was by ship (or swim in some very unfriendly waters) Sadrith Mora, for example, was hard to get to unless you went by ship. Other times, it just makes more sense to use magic. The mages guild quests, for example. You could complete a whole slew of them without ever going outdoors - you just bounced all over the island from guild house to guild house.

So by all means, have fast travel by ship, guild guide, or horse - but allow for long foot journeys as well. There are always going to be those times when you are in a hurry, or have walked the path many times.

Indeed, though people did mod in other means of more convenient travel. And then when Oblivion introduces a more convenient approach to fast travel, people are making mods to remove it or replace it with a Morrowind like system. it just goes to show that no matter what system you use, someone will not be pleased with it.

But there already are various things in the wilderness of Oblivion that you might miss if you always fast travel to wherever you want to go, things like dungeons, bandit camps, and such. Now, there's some arguments that they're not as rewarding as they should be, but that's a discussion for another time. In any case, I'd think the people complaining about fast travel wouldn't need reasons not to use it, not liking it should be reason enough. Myself, I sometimes choose to use fast travel, other times I don't. It comes down to a matter of how I feel at the time, really. Sometimes, I just want to get to where I want to go as quickly as possible, save on real time, and avoid walking, which I have nothing against in itself, but walking everywhere in a game the size of the Elder Scrolls can get tedious at times, especially when I'm walking through places I've already seen many times which really haven't changed much since I last visited them. But sometimes, I do want to walk, to see the sights, and maybe even stumble upon some interesting locations on the way, in this case, I just don't click the icon of the place I want to go to on my map, and instead just go out, and walk in its direction. I don't need the game to encourage me to do things one way or the other, because if I want to do things that way, it's enough encouragement for me.

But if Bethesda wants to "solve" this "problem", I'd say the best approach is to provide an alternative. If some players prefer Oblivion's approach to fast travel and some prefer Morrowind's, why not have both? Some players will say "Don't like it, don't use it." and for the most part, I agree with this argument, there's just one flaw in that argument, it presents only two options. Do, or do not. In this case, that means fast travel, or don't fast travel, where in reality there can be a third option, namely, an alternate means of fast travel. You can't please everyone, this is not news, but additional options may allow you to please more players than you could without those options. What I'm suggesting is to have travel services in towns like in Morrowind, and have a similar method of fast travel to Oblivion, this way, both camps can get something that suits them. To go along with this, there should be some sort of advantage to using travel services, because aside from appeasing those players who preferred Morrowind's approach to fast travel, they would be entirely redundant otherwise. For one thing, there should be some risk that when using fast travel, you might be attacked by enemies, in which case, you would need to kill the enemies, or escape from them before you can continue traveling, at which case, you would have the option to resume travel, choose a new destination, or continue on foot. The risk of getting attacked and the types of enemies should also be determined by the area you're traveling through at the time, ideally, it should feel like a natural thing, wherein you just encountered enemies along the way, rather than the game just throwing them at you for the same of a challenge. Honestly, even without alternatives, I'd still say Oblivion should have had this. After all, if there's a risk involved in real time travel, it doesn't make any sense for fast travel to be completely safe. To go along with this, I'd say that, rather than just click on the map icon, loading screen, and then you're where you want to be. Fast travel could instead have a screen displaying a map of Skyrim with the route you take shown in a line and the "you are here" icon moving across it to indicate where you're going (of course, this should be fast enough that it doesn't become annoying.) perhaps this could even be used to disguise the loading times involved, hopefully, that would help to reduce the feeling of "teleporting". Players could also be given the option to plot routes for fast travel, with the game automatically selecting the quickest (But not always safest.) route to your destination if you just click where you want to go, with the option of plotting a route allowing players to extend the travel time in order to avoid more dangerous areas, but I'm getting sidetracked here, I was supposed to be talking about how to provide advantages for using travel services. As to travel services, they could avoid the risk of random enemies attacking you, they should also be quicker than map-based travel, I don't expect that to be a major concern in Skyrim, but if you want to get from one town to another quickly in game terms for any reason at any point, travel services should be the ideal approach. The prices of such services should also be balanced to ensure that the increased safety and in-game speed is worth the cost. Adding an alternative seems like the best solution because it doesn't look to me like the players complaining about Oblivion's fast travel actually don't want the option to avoid real time travel, if that were the case, they wouldn't point to Morrowind's approach as what what is, to them, a preferable approach, and really, that's why there's a problem in the first place. The don't like it, don't use it argument would work perfectly if they didn't want any fast travel at all. But in this case, it really should be "If you don't like it, use something else." which simply wasn't an option in Oblivion, it doesn't look like it will be in Skyrim either, from what has been said about the game's approach to fast travel so far, but still, I thought it would be worth putting that forward as what might be preferable solution.

I don't doubt that some players still won't be happy with this, because some players seem to be offended by the very existence of a fully optional feature they don't want to use. And maybe there will be a more reasonable portion of the fanbase.



And how do you know that? Don't assume that just because YOU feel that way, everyone else does. Morrowind's system was certainly preferable to none at all, but believe me, when I was told to go out into some location in the middle of the same nowhere I'd explored the 20th time already to visit some location far from any town with travel services, I did NOT love it at all, it only served to remind me of why I'm glad Bethesda brought us map travel in Oblivion.



Because some people apparently find it extremely difficult to not do an optional thing they quite clearly don't want to do, and need an option to disable their ability to use the option, if you ask me, they deserve to have their experience ruined by using features they don't want to use if they insist on using them despite not liking them. What are people going to ask for next? An option to disable the ability to use the enchant skill? An option to disable the choice to play as a Breton? An option to disable the use of the options menu?



That's pretty simple, as long as the wide open world is there, it exists by default.

There's no dillemma, use it or don't.

No one has ever replied to my opinion on the matter in the hundreds of fast travel topics I've replied in, so could someone read this and reply?

We should have a limit of how much we fast travel. Travelling longer distances would take away a bigger part of the fast travel bar we have and it would be reach 0 if we fast travel from one side of Skyrim to the other. Sleeping in a safe bed would be a way of replenishing this meter, making beds more useful in the game world. There could still be implemented travel services, as we'd often run low on the fast travel meter.

Reply!

1. There is no fast travel "dilemma".. it's not a even a "problem"

2. Easy solution that so many people can't seem to understand for one reason or another, if you want to fast travel then yes, fast travel. If you disagree with fast travel and do not want to use it.. happy days, because it's completely optional! You are forced to do neither. This isn't a online game or a MMO like Darkfall was so there is no need for balancing by adding "wilderness treasures" or anything else like that.




Luckily the human mind comes with a in built "No Fast travel" configuration. It's very easy to use and to configure it to no fast travel you just basically don't use fast travel! It's great!




Precisely!

Okay I'll bite, It could probably work, but I'm already sold on the idea of just having chances of random encounters put into the Fallout 3's fast travel.



It's because there are two camps who want FT changed.

The First Group[ (1.G) is the people who want FT gone, or who want it extremely limited, because they for some reason can't limit themselves.

The Second Group (2.G) are the people who want a more immersive form of fast travel, since fast travel is the character traveling with time speed up.


1.G doesn't have a leg to stand on.

2.G have a case.


And this is where it get's complicated because:

1.Gs main point is to get FT out or limited through whatever means available.

2.G wants immersive FT which recognizes the world, this can be achieved through a lot of things, some of which functions as a limit.

Because of this, 1.G will argue the 2.Gs arguments, when their own arguments run out.


However, this damages the 2.Gs image, because now 1.G and 2.G are associated with each other, and the agenda of the 2.G is drowned, and dismissed by the arguments against the agenda of 1.G.


Basically, 2.G is the reason FT debates are still standing, but because 1.G is associated with them, 2.G is giving the agenda of 1.G artificial life support. 1.G is basically liching on the valid case presented by 2.G.

Just look at the question tweeted to one of the developers "are we still forced to fast travel?" , That is the agenda of 1.G! who is "forced" to fast travel, because they somehow can't limit themselves. It says nothing about immersive fast travel, it disguises the 2.Gs valid case, as one that is invalid.

This results in our current stalemate, where FT debates refuses to die, because of 2.Gs valid case, but cannot win, because all people see is 1.G.

Maybe that could be implemented as well? Both the fast travel meter, travelling services and the danger of random encounters if you are fast travelling?

I find it strange that so many people are so strongly opposed to fast travel. If there is no fast travel, half of the players will be unhappy. If there is fast travel, the other half can choose not to use it, and Bethesda will have avoided making anyone mad for a reasonable reason. If you don't like something, don't use it.

This. This. THIS.

Even if people are arguing they just want a more immersive form of fast travel like travelling on a carriage or something like that, those points are silly too.

If they want that so badly they can just make sure they walk to the front of a city/village/stables before they fast travel and not use it otherwise.. It's that simple! Make pretend.

These fast travel arguments are so silly and fruitless, they aren't going anywhere.

Well it depends on the implementation, I'd rather have FT meter + Traveling services (which then aren't limited by the FT meter), or Random Encounters + Traveling Services.

This is because the FT meter will automatically kind of have Random Encounters, because if you're still in the wilderness, when the FT meter runs out, there's a chance you're going to encounter something normal traveling the rest of the way, or you might encounter something at the place FT puts you down when the FT meter runs out.

Traveling carriages aren't unreasonable, provided they don't limit current FT methods, they don't have to be an alternative, they can simply be a option, with a possible benefit (say lower chance of random encounters). Kind of like Red Dead Redemption.

I suppose you are right, adding both would be layer on layer

I have a solution! Toggle it!

:facepalm: troll.

Of all ridiculous stuff ever suggested for the legendary "Fast Travel Problem", there is one single most idiotic solution: "make it so you can turn it on/off": making an option optional!

It simply adds another layer of stupidity. If you can't handle the pressure, you'll simply turn it on and use it and then blame Bethesda for actually including fast travel at all, empowering the part of your brain that'd like to save real-life time in doing so

I think people who can't handle the pressure and need to be forced not to use fast travel are the ones Bethesda NEED to ignore. You can always not make use of an option, but there is no way to implement an additional mechanics into a v1.00.

Just how hard is it to not use a feature? I've never felt I have to use self-shadows or difficulty slider, yet I don't think I should take the option away from those that DO want to use them.


That aside, I have been wanting to ask people this:
"Just how fast is the 'immersive fast travel' you've been suggesting?"

This is not a sarcasm or an insult, this is a real question

If it's just as fast as a white horse in Oblivion, then there are little benefits from it, aside from the possibility of "can't be attacked by wildlives" which is a real plus.

whats with people and fast travel its not teleportation time moves foward depending on how far you traveled, do you guys and gals want to watch you character walk from bruma to leyawiin is that it?

I don't find that strange at all, people are selfish and some will gladly spoil the fun for everyone else just to get their way. It's a disgrace, but that's people for you.
I'm selfish myself, but that doesn't mean I willingly act like a dike to other people just to get my way, I'm an advlt and I can compromise. I like having fast travel handy, I still explore the world but having the option is nice, especially on later playthroughs.

If you hate fast travel, don't use it. Don't be an ass and try to force your irrational hatred on everybody else.

Adding both Fast Travel and Travel Services is the best solution.
A toggle on Fast Travel would be nice too, but it's not needed per-say.

Every time I see one of these threads and read the replies, I keep wondering why are you guys so opposed to Travel Services and optional Fast Travel? You would still be able to Fast Travel. :shrug:

I like the idea but it still wouldn't nesecerilly stop me from fast ravel when i want to.

Fast travel is optional to begin with, adding a toggle option is an utter waste of time. Considering that it can be toggled back on just as easy as it was toggled off, what's the point? Just don't use it, why add a completely redundant button for it?

I do support travels ervices though, they do make the world feel much more alive. I'd like to have both.

However, now that I have some mod experience under my belt, it shouldn't be very hard at all to mod in travel services. I'm going to give that a shot once Skyrim is out, just make a simple caravan that takes you from one city to another as a test, then see about implementing a proper travel network.

It would stop some people from "cheating", you know they're out there. And some people just want it out of the game. Simple.
And people won't be able to easily switch it on/off, if the option was at the main menu or character creation.
As for "Wasting time" Honestly, how long do you think it takes for a professional to add a toggle for something like Fast Travel?

Not long, that time is still something that can be better spent on something else. 5 minutes spent on a feature with actual meaning beats 5 minutes spent on something that's completely redundant.

If you don't want to use it, just don't. I can not believe people are having trouble grasping this concept.

Tell me, how does a toggle hurt your gaming experience?

The way I see it, it pleases both parties, but all I see are people complaining.
I find this very selfish.

However, did any of the mods that added more convenient travel remove any silt striders, guild guides or boats and docks? I don't think so.
One of the more important complaints about Oblivion's fast travel is that the game lacked all these things because it had its more convenient system, thus removing things that were really important for atmosphere. There were almost no docks in Oblivion, there was nothing to do in the Mages Guild guildhalls, there was no visible infrastructure.

People keep talking in extremes, and that is really annoying. For them, the fast-travel discussion always revolves around two extremes: not having anything like that in the game, or having Oblivion's/Daggerfall's pure fast travel system; using it, or not using it; stuff like that. They keep saying that Morrowind's system wasn't perfect either, even though nobody said so. They say "just don't use it", when people actually aren't interested in not having a fast-travel system at all.

It's not about giving rewards to people who don't use fast-travel. It's about making fast-travel fun and atmospheric. In the end, people will always enjoy a nice walk through the game world, if the game world is atmospheric and interesting enough. No problem is solved when people simply don't use fast-travel, because the game developers *should* want them to do both. They should want them to be extremely satisfied while using fast-travel, while also being able to think "you know what? today, no fast travel! i'll walk there, and it's gonna be great!".

And the sad thing is... it's so easy to do. It's not the most complex thing in the world. But for some reason, some of the people who liked Oblivion's fast travel really can't budge in and say "alright, I respect that you didn't like this system, and it would be great if the developers did something so that you can enjoy the game as well".
Instead, they say "making you happy isn't even worth 5 minutes of their time".
What the heck, guys.

It is a completely redundant "solution", while at the same time it's not a solution at all. Like I said before, it's just another layer of stupidity

Simply act like Fast Travel doesn't exist in the game, and you're golden. No switch, no whining, just simple common sense

It's like you have the choice of "whether to cook chicken or not", but before that you have the choice of "to be able to choose whether to cook a chicken or not"

It's too redundant a solution. If you don't want to cook chicken, then don't add another step of to be able to choose whether to do it or not, simply DON'T DO IT

@Fearrabbit:
Can you elaborate as to how your fast travel is?

If it's "the same as doing it manually minus holding down move button and random enemies", then it doesn't really help, except if it's another option, that is, you can basically "teleport" when you really need to save that diminishing real-life time or you can choose to go with public transport