I don't usually get annoyed by does comments.. its just i really wanted to discuss about this.

This demo was made from a version of the game before January, so of course its gonna be rough and a bit buggy.

The victory shout at the end sounded so gay that I decided to never play as a male Nord. Hopefully the male Dunmer don't sound like "that".

If a game was to be perfect, then a game will never be produced.

My reply to your critiques:

Part 1:

The first two arrows CLEARLY miss, thats why there's no impact sound...because there is no impact.

If you or enemies responded realistically to EVERY SINGLE HIT, it would stop being a stat based RPG, and would turn into a brawler (heck, thats how you win not only at Mortal Kombat, but in real life: hit hard and fast so the other guy cannot hit back). Not even in action games like God Of War do enemies react to every blow. That would make the game unbalanced, cuz you can think and hit faster that the AI can. Therefore, you will always have the AI staggering, therefore you always win.

You probably stagger enemies when you land critical hits. If you notice the fight with the frost troll, the normal axe hits make nothing special in the damage department. When the hits stagger the troll, you can clearly see its health bar go down more than with the other attacks. Thats clearly a critical hit.

Part2:

Ok...you realize his sneak was altered for the demo, right? He was alerted, but is not aware theres an enemy. Sure...his mate got killed. but I think the word game in the phrase video game should be emphasized.

I dont understand what you mean by "blunt weapon reactions". How is the spider reacting in a way that makes you think it looks like its being hit with a blunt weapon? Honestly, that criticizism is very imprecise, and is based more on your subjective appreciation. If you were cut with a sword, you'd probably back away too, like that spider clearly did.

And they have explained what Clairvoyance does. Whatever you assumed is your responsibility. Todd explained it guides to objectives. It is not the Force in Star Wars Jedi Outcast II.

Part 3:

Exactly, you ASSUME this is the same guy. Its obviously not. The other guy was "finishing-moved". It has been said in previews that that is a Stormcloak guard tower...kind of weird for there being only one guy in an outpost, dont you think?

If these are the criticisms that can be made about this game, most of them unrealistic desires people have concerning what they subjectively want to see, then Bethesda has nothing to fear from critics at this point.

I agree with you there, the OP is simply reaching for stuff that are practically pointless to nitpick in an Alph build demo :violin:

I can deal with all the other [censored] that's in this game except for two things:

1. The lame dragon ball Z Dovakhiin shout at the end of the 3rd vid.... I mean really??? come on now....

2. Finishers. as long as you can toggle them off then they are fine...

Part 1
3:17-If you listen the first arrow doesn't hit the character, it hits the road it sounds like, the second you can see shoot past, and the third does hit him, and i can understand what you mean by why doesn't it make the character like reel back or something, well they made this character for the demo's so they can do whatever they want without dying and worrying about re-loading to the checkpoint and stuff.

6:28-The horse does look a lil weird, but again the graphics are pretty amazing on it.

Part 2
0:27-Ya, but the character is still hidden, it says that after he kills the first person, it would look better if the NPC like turned around and looked for you, but they said the sneak was improved and way more useful in Skyrim than OB, so it's understandable if they NPC can't see you.

Part 3
2:08-No that is a different guy, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJAB2QGna_g&feature=youtu.be&t=1m39s you can see two guys, one right there in front, the other back behind him, and also at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJAB2QGna_g&feature=youtu.be&t=2m06s you can see another guy in the foreground, and one more farther back behind him, so there is upwards to 3 guys fighting that dragon with you, 1 dies, and two more are helping you.

3:37-Again the character was made really high level and such, so maybe the game will be different, don't know.

And just to point out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJAB2QGna_g&feature=youtu.be&t=3m36s the water is going through the roof of that tower, so i think water still goes through buildings...:/.

[Edit:That rain is for your shout, so it may be different with the real dynamic weather and such, real rain may run off the buildings or something or maybe even make small puddles hehe.]


Other than that all this video made me want to do is go freaking get the game right now, i liked it and they made the game even more interesting, for me at least.

It's like people expect Bethesda to make an AI as complex as the human mind. Do you expect them to fashion something into the AI for every one of the thousands of possible scenarios that could occur in a game like this?

The only issue I had was that rain goes through solid objects.

Please. Fallout NV had smarter sneak detection and that was not even a new engine. I really hate when people make up excuses for why the devs shouldn't have to try harder

his sneak was at77

You hate some of the awesome stuff? I thought that when he screamed DOVAAAKHIIIINNNN! That was [censored] awesome.

1. Making a big deal out of finishing moves is pointless. It has no detrimental effect, at all. There's no breaking of immersion, considering you're doing a better version of what would happen if you outright killed the thing anyway, and regardless, it's entertaining, brutal, and I'm confident they made enough of them to warrant a very small amount of irritation at best. Plus, it's not like it's hard for them to make an option to turn them off. It really isn't. Whether that's there atm or not, who knows? But it's not a feature that's all-in or nothing, so just stop.

2. The shield is metal. The guy shooting is terrible at shooting. The arrow you claim to have hit the player, there's only one of those, so I sincerely hope you aren't referring to the one that obviously whizzed by the player's head. Overall, it's a bow and arrow, it's not a freaking ballista.

3. The horses back legs are wierd. They both bend to the left. Happens a lot in games in order for the skeleton to execute running animations. (see: WoW Elephants)

4. This comment alone marks you more than any of the other ones as a pessemistic, illogical buffoon. The character is hidden, and he shot a guy from the dark. Neither one of them know where the character is. If you were sitting around a campfire with a mate and he suddenly flopped over dead with an arrow in his jugular, would you immediately know where the killer was? The game has better AI than Oblivion, it's not worse. If you shoot someone in a group of people while you're HIDDEN, then you would expect to be considered hidden, wouldn't you? Todd Howard explained that in this situation, the AI goes to different states starting with alert, searching, then they think they've found you, then to hostile and attacking. The player killed the second elf before he started looking. Welcome to post-traumatic stress, Skyrim style.

5. Ok.

6.I'm surprised you couldn't find something wrong with this. It's rather obvious the axe was floating above the Draugr's head during the animation. Figured you would have nitpicked your way into [censored]ing about that too.

7. It's a dungeon. It has an entrance, and an exit. There's no reason for it to have more than one of either of those.

8. Yes, it is. Depth of field is a pain in the ass.

9. His health drops. It's purely speculation on my part (reasonable speculation however), but this is a demo. Don't argue, read this. Everything you saw in this footage is scripted. EVERYTHING. Absolutely everything, including what happens after he jumps. His health goes down. In the actual game, the version you're playing, that will probably be way more punishing of a height. There's good reason to think so. Also, you have no idea what perks he chose. It's a fantasy game like you said, it's entirely possible he just picked a perk that makes high jumps easier to deal with. You also don't know the effects of different game difficulties, but I sincerely hope you're reasonable enough to realize that in order to avoid embarassing themselves, Bethesda scripted the demo to showcase the game's features. The fact that they got through all of them in 20 minutes should have clued you into that. Little things like dropping really far and screwing up the players health would just get Todd killed. They removed acrobatics, I wouldn't put it past bethesda to showcase at least ONE jump in the 20 minute demo, which is what this is.

10. Rewind and pay attention buddy. There's two guards when the fight starts. That's the second one, the one smart enough not to hang out near the mouth of a pissed of dragon.

11. Are you [censored]ing here, or what? It's a good thing, why must you come across negatively and make it sound like a bad thing, for absolutely no reason? It's there, it works, this is a non-complaint.

12. See point number 1.

I don't know you. I don't know the mentality behind the motivations for this post. But I do know, as a general rule, that if you want legitimate discussion, and not bicker, arguing, and name-calling, you should word your post so it fits both ends of the observational spectrum. Listing 10 negatives in a row, then claiming you love the game will only get you yelled at. Surprise surprise.

Alright, i still think the 1st arrow hits the shield but i guess more similar situations could clarify this.

We obviously have a different view on stat based game design. The AI doesn't always react slower that the player and a unpredictable AI can prove to be a challenge. Having encumbrance effects don't make a game into a brawler.. its actually nice i can give you the example of a very recent game called "Dead Island", the game is quite stat based and that didn't inflict the quality of its combat mechanic. You still feel the upgrade on your weapons and the combat is always very reaction based. You can't constantly hit fast to prevent enemy from reacting if you have a proper fatigue system (which is also in Dead Island btw) and you can't exactly encumber a giant or mammoth the same way you encumber a wolf or a humanoid so not every target would be the same challenge obviously. You see.. if you make the game all stat driven, then just by having higher stats that a mammoth it makes all the size advantage to away.. It would only enrich the experience if you made every enemy a different challenge due to they're physiologic differences and not just stat differences. Do note that i'm simply using Dead Island as an example because you incline these things as unachievable which they aren't.

The spider blunt thing was just because you usually see the big knockback effects from a blunt weapon instead of a sharp weapon but this was not intended as a critic and more of a point.

I'm sorry for being dis-informed about it, but the point wasn't so much the fact that it got revealed to me at that point and more the point of clairvoyance having that "bad" effect in my opinion.

I assumed he was the same because i only saw one guy shooting the dragon before, but i could absolutely be wrong about it so yes.. that was a poor point.

I don't think Bethesda should be concerned with any of my points, obviously these things will have no greater impact on the sales of the game and with due right because the game is what it is.. but its not immune to critics and as such i feel like i can comment on how i feel about these matters.
I can understand your points though and i thank you for taking the time to discuss them here!

maybe he thought a dragon killed his friend with its wallhack glitch and that their vision is based on movement like a t-rex!

just sayin.... :nod:

I have removed some posts - just watch it with the personal attacks and remarks please.

Im not talking about sales, Im talking about critiques on design. That affects any creator, much more so than his wallet.

I note your Dead Island points...however, I never said such things were unachievable, I meant to say they were pointless, and really add nothing to the core game. And honestly, in Dead Island most of the time you attack and enemies dont fall back. Why? Because of what i said. In any game, even action games, if you are attacking with a sword, and each sword hit makes enemies react realistically..then you just keep pressing the button till the thing is dead. That doesnt happen in any game, and in Dead island there are flavors of that, but it doesnt govern gameplay. I agree with the fatigue thing...however, Dead Island is meant to be a sort of brawler with melee weapons, stats, and killing zombies, something TES is not. You definition of "proper" fatigue is really limited to particularities that have to do with the design of that particular game. Dead Island is not of the same tradition TES comes from (the old first person slashers of the 90s).

The spider is not knocked back. It staggers back. Look at its legs.

Also, about the arrows, if you listen to it with a decent sound system, or even headphones, you'll hear both arrows whooshing past the player.

You guys are right about the guard, as i said it was a bad point from me. Also not every thing i said was meant as something bad. Obviously terrain deformation is a good thing, i pointed that out because Pete said there wasn't any.. which he used to explain why things like foot prints were not in the game and such. Regarding the finishers, i actually enjoy finishers, i just don't like how they pop you into third person.. and i made a big deal with the dragon one because honestly it was a bit silly . I probably shouldn't have talked about the stealth thing.. its pretty much a lot of speculation right now.. and everyone has a different idea of how one would react in such a situation.. its actually quite silly to say one would always react that way if you think about it.

You have some valid concerns, but are just wrong on a few things (the arrow, soldier)

Also, regarding the sneak attack, wasn't it confirmed that the higher your sneak skill the longer it takes your enemies to react?

The sneaking isn't speculation mate. The AI reacted exactly how Todd said they would. If you're hidden and you kill a guy's friend, the surviver is alert, but frightened. Give him enough time, he starts looking for you. Eventually he'll either find you or stop looking.

It's a chain of sequences that was said to happen every time purely because Todd said thats how the sneak system works. Alert > Searching > Hostile/Give up. Like I said, Todd just killed the second elf before he got worried enough to start looking for the player.

^
And btw Oneah, it makes me kind of sad that you've been going through alpha gameplay finding "problems" like this

Because I'm sure the devs have been barely trying at all. I remember the last time I barely tried at something and then suddenly [censored] out Skyrim.

But really people, the game was in alpha. I'm sure they haven't just been sitting on their hands since January.
And even if this was the finished product, it still looks a hell of a lot better than most games coming out.

It's never good enough, is it? I'm sorry, but i can't find myself in these points of critique. I'm way to excited.

Maybe they should release up-to-date footage, instead of rehashed stuff from several months ago. Todd mode, old footage, all of it serves only to obfuscate whatever changes and improvements they may or may not have made. We obviously can't tell what they have made better or what they have been working on because they refuse to show us anything other than old footage riddled with the same issues and associated complaints from months ago.