i mean civil war for example, are every stormcloaks so stupid that they cant see the fact that thalmor is using them to weaken empire and then finish skyrim off? just seriously obvious with this war going. Instead of going for peace treaty (to prepare for second major war) they still fighting their little pathetic talos worship..

And esbern, really? im disapointed with him.... delphine want dragons dead is ok, she is too young to understand....but someone like esbern should be wise enough to see that with alduin out of the picture, dragons are fairly under control. Yet instead of going against the major threat thalmor, he decided to slay a meditating dragon instead.


Seriously if werent limited dialogue option, i'd scream at these factions right now, all they do is waiting this thalmor organisation to grow into unstoppable size.

"We'll cleave through the legion to get to them."

The Empire is weak already. The Stormcloaks want to be free of it, to not be dragged down anymore, free to rule themselves and free to worship who they please without people disappearing and/or being handed over to the Thalmor for it. They would probably fight with the Empire against the Thalmor if the Empire wasn't trying to keep them under their thumb. As it is, the Empire only weakens themselves further by trying to forstall what I see as inevitable, a free Skyrim.

I played the Empire side my first playthrough, and didn't like it. I have played the Stormcloak side since. General Tullius isn't a bad man, imo, but just following orders isn't an excuse in my book, and no matter how much I like Legate Rikke, neither is enough for me to side with them. I don't feel the reasons are stupid, though I must be even get into another one of these threads. Sorry Sephelutis, but that's the way my characters and I see it. People can cite lore and books all they want, I am Stormcloak all the way.

Edit: By the way, I totally agree with you about Esbern and Delphine.

Double post, sorry..

There is actually very little evidence that the empire is weak, for all we know cyrodiil could be back to the way it was before the great war and we still don't know whats going on in High rock, another thing is that the kind of society that Ulfric wants to bring back is the old nordic society, the one where civil wars and tyrants were a common thing, he essentially wants to bring back the barbaric ways which for some reason some nords think is the best way to live. Another thing is that we have confirmation that Talos worship was still being practiced in skyrim before Ulfric's rebellion it just wasn't done in any chapel which shouldn't really matter right? Just as long as you worship the god you want to worship other then that there is no sign of the imperials oppressing the nords in anyway in fact Skyrim would probably be more stable under Imperial rule then stormcloak rule because while Ulfric may not be a racist there are certainly a lot of stormcloaks that are or will use their power to take advantage of a minority easily, like the silver-bloods enslaving more reachman and trying to take over all mining operations in Skyrim through use of mercenaries. Another thing is and this is shown through in-game dialogue most of skyrim's named npc population, nords and non-nords, seem to favor the Imperial over the stormcloaks, especially in Dawnstar or Riften. Really the kind of society Ulfric wants to make wouldn't work at all because its too barbaric and he picks the wrong people to lead the holds.



This quote is funny because the stormcloaks had a hard time fighting a minor force of the legion.

i fully understand this, but it is FAR FAR better to unite and finish current crisis than to start this pathetic civil war right now, empire might be weak, but it is still an entire empire at your back against the thalmor. thalmors are way too dangerous and civil war is just suiciding. WHO gain the most from this civil war? the thalmor.

you want free skyrim? do it after thalmor disappear from the surface of nirn, the fact thalmor desires utter destruction of this world is beyond any other current motavation right now, put it simple, they are dagon in human forms

That was actually Torygg's response everytime Ulfric tried to get him to break away from the Empire.

also the thing about esbern, even if he hated paarthurnax so much, he could at least waited until the thalmor is gone then give me this quest, the life of paarthurnax might ensure that dragons are under control and perhaps a viable force to fight during the war.