*warning Wall of text*
1. Keep the same feel as fallout. This is a must

2. Progressive world. i.e. A "barter town" that grows with the community. More people join the city as a Permanent resident the city eventually grows to keep up with the population. Starts small but grows over time. So people have the feeling they effect the game as compared to just playing it.

3. Clan, Guild, Tribe land ownership or squatting rights. i.e. We claim bunker X every so often fight for rights to keep claiming it. Having it under your control gains certain perks depending which piece of land you held. This one comes with a med station, this one comes with an Armory. They don't all have to but some nice choice spots should. Think mad max one tribe has the tanker with the gas the tribe storming the gates wants it.

4. Factions outside of tribe, guild, clan. Ghouls, vampires *I know these are more of a recent fallout 3 idea but its a good one especially the twilight/buffy craze going on* mutants on one side. Humans, Cyborgs and Brotherhood on the other. *probably could think up more but want to keep moving* But make it so these factions are not all limiting. If you want to make a Ghouls but be down for the humans you must do a quest to earn reputation with them as you progress and your rep becomes better more and more things in there faction are unlocked as they begin to trust you more and more.

5. Full Customization. Get away from the Standard if you want to be the best you must look like this. I mean yes some armor has certain bonuses with the gear i.e. power armor, and rare pieces of gear. Get away from this People want to make there character look like what every they want not fall into line and blend in with everyone else. If i want my guy in a duster with liberty spikes and Golf bag over my shoulder i should be able to do so without gimping my abilities. You want power armor well tough your going to look like everyone else but your going to have a slight bonus but not enough that your cant play the game without that bonus.

6. By doing the above you can create a fun wide open world that people feel they are actually a part of and have control over not just a world they play around in that what they do has no effect on the world. A more emersive experience and enjoyable time playing. That will keep people playing the fun of seeing whats going to happen next. People love Surprises keep us surprised and we will keep coming back.

7. Minimal Grinding- One of the banes of MMO's that feel of having to grind for your next level. You could even get rid of levels if you wanted. If you want perk X you must do this quest to earn it or learn it. That would get rid of the Grind of most MMO's. Make it loaded with quests that are fun and exciting. Rewards that offer exp and the experience of a fun quest. Joe Smith was robbed by Guy X over here ...go kill him and get my stuff back. I want you to locate my Friend/wife/husband. Just random stuff that you would find in that type of world.

8. Make it large. Do not make it this tight packed area we are bottled into. Make it large and expansive don't hold us to one city or zone. Make it the U.S. not all of it but a big chunk. This part and this part could have so high radiation that even with rad suits and doped up on rad-x you still cant cross it. Expansions could be these areas are finally livable.

Long story short you make a world that worth playing in and each and every time you have fun playing so it doesn't feel like a Job leveling your character and we will keep coming back and paying you to have fun in the world you have created.


******************************************************************************************************** Edit and expansion of Original post******************************************************************
***************************************************************************************************************
I have put further Thought into Races

Humans- Your standard humans nothing real special other other then being a well balanced all around.

Cyborg/Android- Bonuses to techy side (ie Energy weapons, Science, Maybe lock-pick with built in tools)Bonuses to Endurance and Str. Negatives to stealth and thievery.

Ghouls- Standard Fallout Ghouls with tactics like effects (slightly modified for MMORPG) Regen health to eating flesh

Mutants *standard fallout mutants*- Same as fallout tactics (Slightly Modified for MMORPG) Strong and tough but dumb as a post.

Here is were we get outside of Normal Fallout cannon

Vampires-Same as Humans except stat bonus for night and negatives for day. Maybe a charisma bonus and slightly tougher. Ability to drain blood for health and "buffs" depending on which creature blood was taken from.

Mutants- Different then the normal mutants fallout is known for. Watch the 50's sci fi movies. Mutation from radiation have always been a big part of that era. But for example just like you pick some areas to specialize in Energy weapons, Lock picking, etc.... you could pick from a list of mutations extra arm *pick it twice for 4 arms*, Extra eyes for perception bonus, Gills for prolonged water submersion, Scaly Skin for extra armor bonus, Quick health regeneration, the list could be expansive adding flavor to the race. So come with negative effects, noticeable mutations would have most "normal" humans wary or even go as far as banned from certain "puritan" zone/cities.

More could be created but that is a good list so far.

Each one could have access to a certain class list Humans probably having the most as "the balanced" race
Wanderer/ Explorer= your standard all around jack of all trades

Smuggler= ability to rent shop space certain crafting abilities but gain access to smuggler shops discounts and selling bonuses.

Slaver= ability to sell people for cash and access to underground black market of confiscated goods

Technician=Your "Blacksmith" type, ability to craft goods at a higher level then Smuggler and sell items via a shop.

Medic= Better health regenerative abilities and making medications to be sold

Brotherhood= access to power armor quicker then anyone but held to code of ethics violate the ethics to much and become an outcast, while either brotherhood or outcast gain access to special shops for each type, want to regain status with brotherhood could be penance quests to regain favor.

Thief=Out for self, bonuses to lock picking and hacking. Access to Underground Black market style shops.

Assassin= Contact killers special quests for Targets, Specialize in "sniping style" and Melee combat, but if caught doing assassinations in city or by witnessed, Become outlawed and hunted by local "law"

Law Officer *cheesy name i know*= Opposite of assassins and thieves. When thieves or assassins get caught officer are the ones who can check local "NPC" to hunt them down stun or kill them loot corpse for some item *not equipment loss but proof they have done there job* turn that item in for the reward.

These are just a few of the ideas.

******************************************************************************************************** Edit 1/28/10******************************************************************
***************************************************************************************************************

Well I was just using the term "class" so people who are familiar with MMORPG's would have an easier time understanding them. Personally I like the quest to become a member of this faction/job. Leave and Join as you wish. I prefer some decent quest chains nothing that takes weeks to compete. But switching jobs should be able to be done in a single afternoon of gaming. Once you have done the quest you can switch to those can be done without having to request....Almost like unlocking them. But to switch to a competing faction should require a quest each and every time.

i.e. You cant go become a Lawman as a slaver, Assassin, Thief.....without some quest involving proving your loyalty.

I would also like to see something along the lines of Faction Loyalty bonus. Along the lines of your a 5th level Assassin you have unlock something special for that class, Better armor, Stronger Blade stuff like that. So there is a benefit to sticking with a "class/faction" for an extended period of time. Play for long enough Gain Max level for every faction and be able to bounce back and forth between "factions/Classes" as you desire as a reward for being so diligent as a player.

Doing something like that also opens up Special Class unlocks. Kinda like standard pen and paper RPG. Must be *Numbers are just for explanation purposes*5th level Brotherhood and 5th Level Lawman to unlock The Enforcer Faction *name is just random for explanation*

Think of it like a reverse Skill tree. For a lack of a better explanation if anyone has played Final Fantasy Tactics. The Job system, they could be changed on the fly but you had to achieve certain lvls of various jobs to learn the basic skills to become an Advanced Job.

Not only would this make the game a ...prolonged adventure *which is were MMORPG's get their real money from Monthly fees* and keep coming back...But new Factions/job could be constantly added with small content patches to keep the game new and exciting.

Since its more then likely wouldn't be "raiding/instances" based game the content could be new quests, areas, "classes/faction" Plot twists updated environments. Just something that keep the game world rolling like its a real world and not just some stale static world like most...well all MMORPG's

Vampires??

Yes Vampires but not the living in the night, burn up in the sun, undead type. Just like Ghouls of fallout are not true undead just highly radiated mutations.

*section removed sorry bout that didn't know the do not make references rule*

Slight special bonuses while fighting at night slight special negatives while fighting in day. Depending which blood was drank last mutant, ghoul, human, each one could offer a diff bonus. Ghouls blood could work like a ghoul mask allowing you to walk past and blend with ghouls. Mutant blood would offer higher Rad resistance and slight Strength increase. Human Blood would offer Health and a Buff-out like quality.

Sorry there, Got a bit of static for a moment.



Must have mentioned a non gamesas company or something.

Dave Chase

All nice...except those vampires...and as nobody told you...don't mention any other games or companies...only from gamesas...the people in charge don't like it...but still when I arrived I made a mess all around writing any game comparison I could remember...so now I try to explain something without simply comparing it to another game...sounds pretty easy don't you think...( still you will find some people writing this game and that game...just don't go in Hematophage waters...because it will spike some old fans to write - bad things about other companies - and we-you-they don't want that...) Its better to live 3 days as a Lion, then spend the rest of your life as a hyena!

Some good stuff there for sure. And I agree about gear that looks different =)
Fallout Online Forum - Fan Based Community
http://www.FalloutOnlineForum.com

******Original Post edited*****

It was good all the way until I got to the part about factions and classes.

Humans shouldn’t be put into classes. They join factions. XD Keyword is join. Factions you mentioned are races.

Small list of Fallout Factions can include

Brotherhood of Steel
New California Republic Rangers
Slavers Guild
Super Mutants
Enclave
Reno Mafia
Church (Atomic/Apocalyptic/Nuclear) I don’t remember what that church called its self.

The list of factions just gets longer and longer.

Human where in the race section but having access to the most classes they could join.
there were two sections there.

One for Races which Included Humans, Android/Cyborgs, Ghouls, Mutants, Vampires and for lack of a better word true mutations.

Classes where as follows Wanderers, Smuggler, Slaver, Technician, Medic, Brotherhood, Thief, Assassin, Law Officer


New California Republic Rangers
Super Mutants
Enclave
Reno Mafia
Church *Children of the Atom* i think it was
Ya those are all great more the better. Balance wouldn't be an issue since all class would do is tag certain skills giving you a slight bonus in them. Nothing Game Breaking.

Since they wouldn't have to spend time and money on typical MMORPG "raiding" they could more focus on the community aspect of the game. The social Interaction and feel of folks coming together to rebuild the world. The wide open sandbox like customization and freedoms. What makes people stick with MMO's is not the game it self...but the fun you have playing a game with your friends and your Character.*Sorry if you don't have friends in an MMO...why are you playing one.* If you give people one of the largest Create a Character Engines ever combined with an game that never feels like you are going to work *sign on that feeling of oh great I have to kill 10000 of these so I can see the next level*

Give people the freedom they desire, the ability to look like they want to look, act like they want to act and do what ever they want. Your game will be successful. Take a look at the MMORPG's out there. You will see landscapes devoid of any flavor and substance, Games that are nothing but giant grind-fests minimal quests and entertaining things to do while you play *your standard go here kill 50 of these and i will give you item X and some cash a little exp* Those games come and go all the time a lot, failing and costing there company millions in the process.

But take a look at the really successful ones they have things to do so you never get bored tons of quest and little bits of story to get involved in. Once you've done enough the story pieces fit together like a giant puzzle and drive folks to find the little pieces they are missing.

What I think can make this game stand above the competition is an evolving world that people have control over. Hey while your out exploring and playing the game if you run across any of these Bring them back and ill pay you for them. If the community as a whole brings back enough something is unlocked or discovered that changes the games slightly. Maybe power is brought back. Put on your rad suit and collect super Radioactive pieces gather enough maybe the radiation level of a zone can go down making the place more livable and can now be settled without people sprouting extra arms. You and your Tribe/Clan/Guild spend some time clearing out a building and claim it as your own home base and as you explore and disarm turrets call in for a pick up and watch as that turret is taken back to your base and reprogrammed for its defenses.

Long story short a deep involving world that people feel apart of. Where there is always something to do. You never feel burdened to play. Like a true RPG get away from the real world and get svcked into a game that for a second you can forget all the problems of the real world. Hang out with your friends in your Base playing on the new pool table you guys brought back. Off exploring some collapsed tunnel filled with some hideous creatures. Saving some children from a slaver attack.

Somehow my brain can't compute this class thing...so you mean join some fractions - or you mean class as mentioned in other games it is refereed to something you are stuck with...usually forever...

FO1 and FO2 had it simple join - leave - betray - rebel... this is a wider choice...
I will play from wanderer to mercenary - from solo to group, as I feel like it - not strictly by the book - or by the rules some class demands...Here in the game as you say I want to be free...in one town I'll be a mercenary in other a deputy, the third town will step on my toes so I'll kill everyone, at the fourth town I'll run out of cash so I'll rob a bank and escort a caravan to B.O.S. where I will join them for some time...fighting for the greater good...maybe on some quest I'll disagree with B.O.S. and leave them...this is fallout...

P.S. if there will be a racial choice for Super mutants...I will play it for sure...but will I have the free Will to do anything or I'll be restricted to mutant camps or classes...as for I see it anyone would hire or accept a Super mutant - except maybe for the Enclave... Its better to live 3 days as a Lion, then spend the rest of your life as a hyena!

Well I was just using the term "class" so people who are familiar with MMORPG's would have an easier time understanding them. Personally I like the quest to become a member of this faction/job. Leave and Join as you wish. I prefer some decent quest chains nothing that takes weeks to compete. But switching jobs should be able to be done in a single afternoon of gaming. Once you have done the quest you can switch to those can be done without having to request....Almost like unlocking them. But to switch to a competing faction should require a quest each and every time.

i.e. You cant go become a Lawman as a slaver, Assassin, Thief.....without some quest involving proving your loyalty.

I would also like to see something along the lines of Faction Loyalty bonus. Along the lines of your a 5th level Assassin you have unlock something special for that class, Better armor, Stronger Blade stuff like that. So there is a benefit to sticking with a "class/faction" for an extended period of time. Play for long enough Gain Max level for every faction and be able to bounce back and forth between "factions/Classes" as you desire as a reward for being so diligent as a player.

Doing something like that also opens up Special Class unlocks. Kinda like standard pen and paper RPG. Must be *Numbers are just for explanation purposes*5th level Brotherhood and 5th Level Lawman to unlock The Enforcer Faction *name is just random for explanation*

Think of it like a reverse Skill tree. For a lack of a better explanation if anyone has played Final Fantasy Tactics. The Job system, they could be changed on the fly but you had to achieve certain lvls of various jobs to learn the basic skills to become an Advanced Job.

Not only would this make the game a ...prolonged adventure *which is were MMORPG's get their real money from Monthly fees* and keep coming back...But new Factions/job could be constantly added with small content patches to keep the game new and exciting.

Since its more then likely wouldn't be "raiding/instances" based game the content could be new quests, areas, "classes/faction" Plot twists updated environments. Just something that keep the game world rolling like its a real world and not just some stale static world like most...well all MMORPG's

A growing world would be nice. Each players addition to a city would increase it or decrease it depending on if they are helping the city or just robbing it blind. This would be great for the players who first start up the server .... not so much for the players who join the server a year or 2 later. Not sure how this could really be worked around.

Factions are a must. And not just 2 factions. There was no clear cut line in Fallout of goodguys/badguys. You picked who you liked and screwed the other people. I would love to see 4 or 5 different factions fighting over an area or even just a resource. Y-faction wants the junk yard but Z-faction holds it. They would have to do something in order to take it over, could be something as simple as taking out the guards and putting your guards into place. Or even just a PvP type setting where the player faction that wants it just kills the people holding it and takes it for his own faction and hopes his faction can hold it better.

Player housing or clan housing. Players or at least clans, should have the option to have there own little peace of the wastelands. I mean how many times did you walk past a broke down buidling and say to yourself "wow with alittle work .... and a whole lot of clean wipes ... this place could be mine. I mean it has limited access, clearly able to be defended, and the locks even work!" If player housing is out, at least allow clans to work together on a building/settlement. Allow them to buy guards, improvements, ect. If a rival clan/faction doesn`t want them there, then they attack with all their hearts content untill they take the place over.

Another thing is death has to have some meaning. Im tired of MMO's where you run around killing anything you want and not have to worry about what is going to happen besides having to repair your armor and weapons. For a PvE death, the player would take a lose of xp and money. For a PvP death, the player would take a hit to reputation and a slight lose of xp. Now this would have to be limited since we do have PvP'ers that love to camp like there is no tomorrow. Maybe put a 3 pvp limit on the loses for a set player for 30 minutes. But also make pvp rewardable. A player gains rep by killing other players but also can loot a non-player item off the corpse. Maybe some ammo or money or something, it doesn`t belong to the player, it just spawns onthe corpse. This would help limit players running out to just do random pvp, because players wouldn`t want to chance it happening to them also. You wouldn`t want to just chance killing a random person if you had the feeling that 3 of his friends could be close by to return the favor.
Just remember, an amature built the ark ...... professionals built the titanic ....

Wow~ Love the post. Basically sums up all the dreams of us Fallout online fan-natics.

BUT

Dude.... I think the vampire bit has got to go. Vampires are very NOT fallout. You never saw any linkage to the mythical world in the ORIGINAL fallout 1,2 and tactics. The feel of fallout is a retro, alternate post nuclear world. It's cyber punk plus old school sixties westside story. Aliens and mutants fit right in but vampires, ogres, halflings is a badass no no. A recent OTHER company that tried to ride the Fallout fame, in my very bias perspective mind you, FLAMING failed to reproduce the fallout environment. I paid tons but gave the damn game away. It was a waste of my money but I appreciated the effort.

I know what you are getting and I appreciate it. Why don't we look at it from a fallout perspective. Let's call then Dwellers. A group of humans that survived the nuclear fallout by tunneling underground when the bombs fell. They escaped the radiation but not evolution. They are basically blind in bright areas thus giving them a penalty during the day, they have to wear protective gear in sunlight as their skin lacks pigmentation thus if they come into direct contact with sunlight, they blister and burn. The story to support their unique role: They have always lived underground, never even though of going back to the surface, but then again, evolution has other things planned. They lack Vitamin D.... severely. So badly that their kind is slowly dying. They have tech, forbidden tech that lets them distill vitamin D from liver and blood. At times, when they go into a frenzy from the lack of vitamin D, they drink and cannibalize humans and animals for the much needed vitamin D. - Viola~ your fallout style vampires.

The player class is very important and basically it will ultimately define the game. Even if your environment is post nuclear but once you get into the gory details, you get what MMORPG players hate, class bias. It's a hard concept to navigate and it is even harder to keep balance. What you might end up with is an uber class where you get people spamming class exclusive skills. Laymen scenario (from another MMORPG): I whack my way up in a bloody crawl to become a lv100 tanker. I walk tall but then a lv50 "magic" user sets up a totem and spills my guts out..... the turns people off. Unfair advantage. All I can say about the class thing is, please do use sparingly.

Peace and only nuke in games.

I consider these to be bad ideas. I also prefer the Classless skill based system used in previous games.