I understand Oblivion's criticisms, but to claim it is a non-canon, casual piece of trash is false.

You're right, it is canon.

:P (for those of you who have no sense of humor, the implication I am making is a joke)

Hmm, since the changes of Morrowind are being justified by claiming an 8 year old Arena is outdated and no longer canon, may I now claim an 8 year old Morrowind is outdated and no longer canon? Therefore, Oblivion is more canon than Morrowind, right?

My problem with Oblivion being criticized isn't that it's being criticized. I agree with many of the criticisms. I want more skills, more equipment slots, no level-scaling, and a more creative world. What I hate is Oblivion being called non-canon and Oblivion fans being called casual action junkies. I am not nor have I ever been a casual action junkie. If anyone claims Oblivion is an action game, then it must be a very poor one. It is not Call of Duty in the Elder Scrolls universe, it is an Elder Scrolls game. Decent combat doesn't turn Oblivion into an FPS or an action game, and anyone who plays Oblivion as such is missing out on a lot, in my opinion. Oblivion may not have added as much lore as Morrowind, but when being introduced to the Elder Scrolls series through Oblivion, all the lore shown in the game is new. There are few games like Oblivion in existence. The only game like Oblivion, that I know of, is Morrowind. Arena and Daggerfall have little to actually do in them and are too much like DnD, Morrowind is the most original of all TES games. Oblivion, when compared to almost all other RPGs, is unique. Before playing Oblivion, all the games I played were either turn-based or games in which I only gave directions to characters instead of doing things myself. In Oblivion, I am my character. I can do what I want and actually feel like I am doing them. Only Elder Scrolls games have that feeling. The only reason I like Oblivion more than Morrowind is because I started with Oblivion. In terms of actual gameplay, I still love both equally. Morrowind and Oblivion are two games that I group together and they seem to be the only games that allow me to role-play exactly how I want to, by letting me choose what to do and when to do it while feeling like I am my character. They feel like second lives and RPGs unlike all others. Oblivion is not an action game, Assassin's Creed is an action game. Oblivion is the closest game to Morrowind in existence, and like Morrowind, it has its strengths and weaknesses. What I am wondering is what TES V's strengths and weaknesses will be. I am hoping it learns from the mistakes made in Oblivion, but those mistakes in Oblivion aren't enough for me to declare that Oblivion is the enemy of Morrowind. The two games are siblings.

Peter (or Todd) said in an interview that was one of the things they regretted not exploring.

undermining/changing/improving/adding, thats semantics. OB is cannon

This thread is still open?

the title makes it interesting enough to keep it alive.

i have a very bias viewpoint on elder scrolls games, i have oblivion on xbox360 and spent countless hour playing it, i really enjoyed the gameplay and landscape, then i decided to go out and get morrowind for my PC, my computer at the time was absolutley terrible i only managed to play it for about two hours, most of wich i spent no clipping at 1000 miles an hour all over the continent.

even with this incredibly limited experience of both games i can honestly say the morrowind comes out on top of its sequel, not by much but its still better.

morrowind has awesome atmosphere story and feels like a unique fantasy setting and in depth character development with guilds and factions and families
(alot of this comes from outside reading as i only got part of the way through the main quest).

while oblivion has better menu and dialogue systems and graphics, also probably better combat albeit less varied.

oblivion felt very generic compared to morrowind

at least in my oppinion

well that's nice to know. They better learn from this that culture is good and implament it well in the next game. If it's in Skyrim, each city is different from the other.

They can do it. I thought the Shivering Isles(which I consider to be a part of Oblivion) showed that Bethesda knows their fans want atmosphere and a bit of culture. Let's hope the fix the number of equipment slots available, level-scaling, and level-scaling as well.

I love Oblivion, so ofcause i consider it canon but i actually understand if some fans refuse to consider Oblivion canon, or any other game, movie, tv serie or graphic novel they just simpley dont like. To close your eyes for something you consider garbage is a brilliant idea if you ask me. If it makes your understanding and facination of the lore less interesting, why not just consider it non canon? ofcause it dosn't change the fact that its canon but thats not really the point. I think its okay to consider something non canon if Bethesda (or any other develepor) really ruin something you like.

Oblivion is fun and Cannon, but I disliked the lore. They easily could have made just Clovia, the Imperial City, or Nibenay and done it in an equally fun way that fit the lore.

i sincerely hope they regret not exploring alot of things about Oblivion before they shipped it.

They showed their regret by releasing Shivering Isles. Imagine a whole game similar to Shivering Isles. The problem is that Skyrim isn't that interesting.

Sounds more interesting than the Cyrodiil we got.

And do you know why?

The politics. There are some 12 cities (if I recall), all with a different lord, and all in a web of allies and enemies with each other. The chance for a large number of political factions in TES V is huge (assuming it is Skyrim).

Sometimes it takes a different kind of landscape to make the land interesting.

Skyrim can be interesting if they want it to be. The fact that there isn't fascinating lore about it is actually a good thing. With Oblivion, there was amazing lore but they threw it all away when they made Cyrodiil. Gone were the jungles, and gone was the massive and complex Imperial City. But with Skyrim, they can't possibly screw that up. The only thing they have to make look good are the mountains and the cities. TESV is practically guaranteed to be amazing because they're basically starting from a blank slate, considering the minimal amount of lore on Skyrim.

If they fail at making Skyrim amazing they'll have failed at making an amazing game with no lore to inhibit them, so I'll have serious doubts about the future of the Elder Scrolls series.

They can make it interesting. It's basically a blank slate and all they have to do is come up with cool ideas. Of course, they also have to keep existing lore, so people don't get mad again.

Skyrim is (almost)a blank slate, but the Shivering Isles are unique in a way that I can't imagine being rivaled by Skyrim.

This is what you just said:

Shivering Isles was amazing and Bethesda can't top themselves.

Is that seriously what you think? Because if so I don't even see why you're talking about the path Bethesda is on if you have such a minuscule amount of faith in them.

Like it was mentioned above, there is lots of political potential for Skyrim. That was one of the aspects of Morrowind that made it so great.

I believe Bethesda can top themselves, but not with Skyrim.

Rivaldo, Cyrodiil had more political potential than any other province, but that potential wasn't used.

But that makes no sense. Before Morrowind, there wasn't much lore about Vvardenfell itself, all people knew was that it was a volcanic island in Morrowind. And look how amazing they made Morrowind. With Shivering Isles, we new maybe one or two lines of information about what Sheogorath's realm looked like, and look how good that was. And with Skyrim, all we know is that it has tall mountains and snow and political cities. And yet you think it doesn't have the potential to be amazing? How does that make any sense?

I believe it can be amazing, just not more amazing than the Shivering Isles. The Shivering Isles, being the realm of Madness, doesn't have to make sense. In many ways, it doesn't. The Nords aren't a mystical race with magical origins, they just seem plain. Skyrim isn't the province of madness. I'm expecting Skyrim to be like Northern Cyrodiil and what we see in Bloodmoon. We know what Nordic architecture is like and it's not too interesting. The Falmer were nomadic, so I'm not expecting any interesting architecture. I hope I am wrong, but while I'm expecting Bethesda to make Skyrim interesting, I'm not expecting it to be too interesting. If I don't get my hopes up, I won't be disappointed.

We have seen middle class nord architecture. For all we know, the capital building at Winterhold could be a mile high ice castle sustained by telvanni refugees.

Well, in that case, it seems like in a few years you'll be just like the people you argue with all the time. You don't like it when people say Morrowind was better than Oblivion, but judging by what you just said you'll be the first to say TESV isn't as good as Shivering Isles. :shakehead: