Someone explain Myth-Echoes : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:24 pm

Whatever they are.

Echoes of myth are they? Aren't they just easy cop-outs for an endless supply of characters with mythic powers running about the place?

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:09 pm

Eh, I THINK it's just a fancy way of saying that something "echoes," or mirrors a mythic even that happened in the Mythic Era; if I'm right, Enantiomorphs are a good, if not perfect, example. Another could be how the Daedra Lord Nocturnal is an echo, of sorts, of the original nothingness of Sithis.

» Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:48 am

A myth is just a story, and in Tamriel the stories act more like cosmic court case precedents than simple tales. It's the blueprint for nature, and nature mimics the plan.

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:25 pm

A myth is just a story, and in Tamriel the stories act more like cosmic court case precedents than simple tales. It's the blueprint for nature, and nature mimics the plan.

Or in other words.. here's an example:

You create a myth of a god doing this and that, being known for stuff. You spread this and wait for it to root, people to spread the lies and the myth to become believed in. Then you enact that imaginary god -> POOF, you're him and have always been.

This is "creating a myth echo and mantling it as well". The more useful things you could do with the meta-physics of TES.

Well.. simplified, it's not THAT simple of course, but that's the idea.

So a myth-echo is the effect of myths on "TES reality". Myths materialized themselves in one way or another. That's the echo.

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:22 pm

Oh, that makes sense. I guess I misunderstood.

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:44 pm

Or in other words.. here's an example:

You create a myth of a god doing this and that, being known for stuff. You spread this and wait for it to root, people to spread the lies and the myth to become believed in. Then you enact that imaginary god -> POOF, you're him and have always been.

This is "creating a myth echo and mantling it as well". The more useful things you could do with the meta-physics of TES.

Well.. simplified, it's not THAT simple of course, but that's the idea.

So a myth-echo is the effect of myths on "TES reality". Myths materialized themselves in one way or another. That's the echo.

Well... the myth has to be true in the first place. But that's how the Tribunal ascended; they used kagrenac's tools to "edit" myth.

And myth echoes are more spontaneous and naturally-occurring than manufactured. The Aldmer built Towers because that's what they saw as the first and oldest structure and the symbol of their god. Now these echoes have a potential pull on the original that spawned them. Just like the Wheel of Towers in Tamriel acts as a stand-in for the Wheel itself and there is potential for a symbolic action to be duplicated on the higher level Wheel. I'm not sure whether to call it subgradient or not.

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:56 pm

Did you play through Bloodmoon's main quest? If so, read http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/bm_aevar.shtml. This story is the myth. What you did was the echo of that myth.

» Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:40 am

Did you play through Bloodmoon's main quest? If so, read http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/bm_aevar.shtml. This story is the myth. What you did was the echo of that myth.

It's been years since I played through Bloodmoon's MQ as skallfriend. That story is massive. They don't write stuff like that no more.

» Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:20 am

Did you play through Bloodmoon's main quest? If so, read http://www.imperial-library.info/mwbooks/bm_aevar.shtml. This story is the myth. What you did was the echo of that myth.

Welll, if this is true, then tha basically encompasses what I said then...right?

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:21 pm

It's been years since I played through Bloodmoon's MQ as skallfriend. That story is massive. They don't write stuff like that no more.

Massive?

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:06 pm

Massive?

The story of Aevar Stone Singer, is massive I meant. Excuse my vernacular.

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:58 pm

The story of Aevar Stone Singer, is massive I meant. Excuse my vernacular.

On normal paper, it as at most, like what? 5 pages?

THAT is massive?!

(hate to see what kind of descriptor you would affix to a work like Dune.)

» Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:02 am

On normal paper, it as at most, like what? 5 pages?

THAT is massive?!

(hate to see what kind of descriptor you would affix to a work like Dune.)

Heh. Epic.

On Morrowind's "normal" paper, it constitutes a large book. Therefore, massive.

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:42 pm

Welll, if this is true, then tha basically encompasses what I said then...right?

Yup. It's the perfect example of faithful myth-echo enacted by the player.

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 4:39 pm

Cool then. I'm glad I get it. Thanks.

» Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:01 am

Okay. So how is Pelinal a myth-echo of Lorkhan?

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:08 pm

Okay. So how is Pelinal a myth-echo of Lorkhan?

He isnt. He is a myth echo of the enantiomorph of Lorkhan + Akatosh. (which is why he is bat ass crazy!)

The lorkhan aspect comes from his disenfranchised heart..... Cut diamond wise, and leaving a red diamond shaped hole in his chest.

» Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:46 am

from what I've been hearing, he's a schizo that has both Lorkhan and Akatosh "in his head." He's a wanderer, as Lorkhan was (I guess that's part of it).

In his respective Enantiomorph, I think he also encompassed Akatosh/Lorkhan in it.

I know very little about Pelinal that I haven't heard on the forums. I'm gonna do some reading on him like right now.

edit: Yeah, Wierd beat me to it....

» Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:17 am

Where does the Akatosh side come into it?

So, myth-echoes can be invoked through seemingly mundane things, such as a missing heart? There must be more than that, surely. No mystical squablidoos, or creatia needed?

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:07 pm

Where does the Akatosh side come into it?

So, myth-echoes can be invoked through seemingly mundane things, such as a missing heart? There must be more than that, surely. No mystical squablidoos, or creatia needed?

Think of a myth echo as "divine coincidence"--- It is a twisted, brain [censored] spin on fate.

» Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:18 am

Doesn't he time travel, too? He's at one point in one era, then he somehow "lives" to the Second Era or something like that, right?

» Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:53 am

Where does the Akatosh side come into it?

So, myth-echoes can be invoked through seemingly mundane things, such as a missing heart? There must be more than that, surely. No mystical squablidoos, or creatia needed?

He shares in Akatosh's madness.

I would hardly call a missing heart mundane. It's all symbolism, and that symbolism gives it power. When you reenact a divine event you are reconnecting with the divine. Albides recently linked to a guy who wrote on this view of religion and religious worship, and what I read was very interesting, but I can't for the life of me remember the guys name right now.

Doesn't he time travel, too? He's at one point in one era, then he somehow "lives" to like the Second Era or something like that, right?

You are either thinking about him being from the future, or that he shows up after his death to give Allesia the amulet of kings.

» Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:39 pm

You are either thinking about him being from the future, or that he shows up after his death to give Allesia the amulet of kings.

It's only the armor that is being said to be from the future really, which just seems like an archaic way to call it futuristic.

» Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:36 am

Is there any significance in Pelinal coming from a heaven-sent red gem? I keep getting an image of him pulling Chim Ad-Abadal from his chest cavity and handing it to Alessia.

» Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:51 am

Is there any significance in Pelinal coming from a heaven-sent red gem? I keep getting an image of him pulling Chim Ad-Abadal from his chest cavity and handing it to Alessia.

Just like that [censored] Allesia. PELLIN-EL gives her his heart--- LITERALLY-- and she goes and runs off with his best friend because he is better in bed. Tsk tsk tsk.