By no means am I saying Bethseda should only cater to one kind of fan and only that type of market. However, there are times, where I miss the Slow Burn Combat on the previous titles. F3 and FNV.

I touched base on this before in another thread about bullet spongers. I am by far not the greatest twitch player there ever has been and I am horrendous at most shooters. Often times I favor a more strategic gameplay that utilizes VATS or ways of taking the game to my advantage. But I wanted to do something with Artair because that has always been a game style. So I tried for a different playthrough beside the Intellectual Scientist who tries to avoid fights.

The problem I find is I love this game for:

-Environmental Ambiance

-Extensive Exploration

-And yes its shoddy crafting system, sometimes

-The side quest are fun, but tedious

Tedious because,

Enemies. What really kills this game for me, is hordes of enemies coming at me. I am by far not the best shooting Wastelander out there. The waves of enemies make this game lose appeal to me. It waste all my resources. It waste all my ammo. And proficiencies these long, drawn out, eat my bullet battles. Gunners are the worse, but....

For example was doing Cait's quest. No spoilers, but I walk into Vault 95.

An army of Gunners

Two Assault Trons

One Mr. Gusty

I don't know how many times I died. And they were either at my level or a little above it. It wasn't that a single gunner is hard to take down. It's when you have the two hardest robots, spray praying Gunners with laser pistols.

I miss just being able to walk into an environment and take that environment in. I want more slow burning combat. With fewer firefights. Because this game is becoming virtually unplayable for me.

I was never a fan of Dark Souls or Demon Souls because I don't see Challenge as Dying or as Enemies are Hard to kill. The reason why I bring this up is because I don't find that kind of firefight combat fun. I find it tedious. It waste more resources. And I hate wasting resources on combat.

I have always said before. A game is not solely bound by its genre. A game can take good ideas from another game, because some ideas are not bound by a genre.

I personally want to see the next Fallout, have customized Difficulty Settings like Dragon Age Inquisition.

I want to be able to have

-Storyteller; fewer enemies will spawn

-Normal; enemies at Normal Difficulty

-hardcoe; you must drink sleep, eat, etc.

In this day and age. To appeal across all markets of fanbases. Companies need smarter, more complicated difficulty settings. We're kind of past the age of just Very Easy, Easy, Normal, Hard, Very Hard.

We need the ability, especially in RPGs, to be able to customize our games in these open environments.

But those are simply my thoughts.

And it be nice if sidequest could be completed in different ways. I.e. like the Gunners in Vault 95.

"Why are you here"

Charisma or other skill like Luck, "My friend needs help"

Or something like that. I just have a hard time with such a heavy combat scenario.

Do you use Stealth? I also hate large-scale combats, but I don't recall many times that I had ~no choice~. Usually I sneak in under Stealth and just quietly murder foes (usually with a silenced sniper weapon). If they are alerted to my presence, I just run for cover and wait for someone to come around the corner and then VATS them in the head --- at close range, 95% chance, usually.

I said earlier. That Most of my characters were always always stealth based. So when it came down to designing a new character, I wanted to go with a different build. Because I am always always always playing Stealth. I wanted to try something new. And the something new is making the super fights utterly impossible for me.

It aggravates me how often people on here call for the game to be nerfed because they can't be bothered to play the game properly. I hope it doesn't influence future changes.

Ah, must have missed that, reading quickly at work while the boss is not looking. Yah, if you don't use stealth then you are pretty much tacitly agreeing to live with the consequences of facing large numbers of aggro foes at once, and if that's not something you enjoy, I wouldn't do it. I thought about trying different playstyles, but it always boiled down to me not ~liking~ those playstyles so I went back to the way I LIKED to play. You could always deck yourself out in superior armor and get the perks that augment the effect of stimpaks and chems and just pop stimpaks and psychojet and so on to survive long extended firefights. Still would not help with the ammo / targeting issues. For those, your best bet is getting the perk to find more ammo and using VATS.

Can we please lose the stigma on V.A.T.S.?

This game is intended to be played with it (for most builds). As a long time fan of the series, I am still grateful for Bethesda for finding this clever if simple way of bringing together the traditional turn-based combat and their desire to fuse it with their TES/FPS action gameplay. It's not a crutch or mark of the amateur.

It's just the "Fallout thing". Actiony with a spin.

Oh I am not against it. Just Artair spends most of his time running in circles trying not to take damage, he has little AP left for VATS. lol

@Roachor: In the last games we were able to talk our way out of most combat situations. There were multiple ways of defeating quest. And I as I said earlier, I svck really bad at firefights because I am not a good at first person shooters. I want a more story driven game like FNV, than a combat one. And the difference in gamers should be respected.

I hear your general complaint X27, It seems like fighting is almost always necessary (I haven't built my character for stealth, but it does seem like some missions have secret alternate routes around enemies). Regardless, in the majority of missions you need to either stealth or shoot to complete.

It sounds a little bit like you want to be able to complete missions without dieing and without wasting a lot of resources. As someone who is not very good at FPS either, I'd like to offer the following road map to anyone who wants to "nerf" the game (just learned this word, I assume it means "make it easier"). The key is to always use V.A.T.S., of course. I basically shoot 99% of the time with VATS. But VATS uses AP, you say, so "How do I pull this off". Here's some tips:

1. concentrate on perception and agility specials

2. concentrate on a single gun perk (i.e. pistols or rifles) and keep filling those perks as soon as you reach the required level (I use pistols)

3. wear armor that increases AP regeneration, and/or reduces VATS cost. I have 2 or 3 of these pieces of armor on, and yes they do stack.

4. modify your weapons so that they use less AP. That means NO SCOPES on medium range weapons.

5. Get the Action Point Recharging bonus perks.

6. Befriend Macready and finish his quest line, he has a great VATS perk.

7. Don't waste AP running

8. For an easier experience use a strong companion like Danse or Preston, you could probably take Danse along and hide behind him on most quests

Twenty levels ago my characters AP would refill in 8 seconds. Now I bet its even faster. I can shoot double figures shots of my favorite pistols with full AP (Old Faithful and Deliverer). I've never understood why people are so scared of Assaultrons, I guess I always head shot them to death before they hurt me.

Alternate Strategy: There are some perks that allow you to pacify creatures and robots. Obviously this won't work on the majority of "Dungeon" enemies, but if you command them to protect you, perhaps they could help you on those quests....

As for the specific quest you mentioned, the game makes it pretty obvious that that will be a difficult quest due to its location. For that particular one, I went power armor suited up and brought a triple barrel penetrating missile launcher. Battling that legendary gunner was epic!

Problem is Mdelp.

It seems people generally don't get it. That's how ALL my other characters are built in the past built around. Use of AP, VATS, stealth.

I wanted a different game. I didn't want to go to all the same tactics I fall into all the time. It gets boring playing the same character, let alone the skills I did focus on with one of my other characters who plays exactly like that is never acknowledged or used in the game.

i never use VATS on Falllout for combat maybe for scout a area.

But i never have this issue u saying, only with Ghouls but that add for me something cool to ghouls mechanics

I felt this way until I got my bearings and figured out how to build characters in FO4. Now I wander the gameworld looking for fights

Chems are also your friend in this game. In fact, it could be argued that a chemist build is the most powerful character you can create in the game. Chem addiction immunity plus extended chem duration with things like Psycho Jet, Psychotats and Bufftats and you don't need stealth to be a monster.

Exactly how I am building Artair right now. This man drinks and does so many drugs, I am concerned for his internal organs.

For outside combat, you could do a running battle with the waves of enemies. That's how I do it when I don't use stealth. In denser areas, I will run toward another faction and let them destroy each other. This has created some of the most amazing, chaotic, and memorable battles in my game.

For inside, it's a bit more problematic because of the limited space. I can easily justify using stealth indoors when traveling alone. Otherwise I do resort to the better chems, power armor, and a companion.

"I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him".

Yikes, lot of you peeps have nostalgiac visions of FO3 and FONV. One of the worst aspects of FO3 and FONV was that once you cleared out a lot out of the map, it becomes barren, and there's nothing to really do there. FO4 improves on that.

Not really. I play for story.

I rather they replace almost all these enemies, with living people not trying to kill me. Which would make the game feel more alive, as well as slow down the pace of combat for those who don't play for combat

I agree, when I played Fallout 3 for the first time it took me a second playthrough to realize that it was meant to be played different from most other games... Bethesda is about immersion, and for the OP to say that he wants some peace and quiet in a game like Fallout which is a post apocalyptic world literally breaks immersion and world building...

It sounds like your problem is that you don't want to play a stealthy character but you still want the stealth style gameplay. Stealthy characters get the luxury of a more laid back, less risky, less resource consuming play style. If your character is not stealth or brains, then by the very nature of the character your going to be in more fast-paced and ammo costly battles. You took a chance with a different style of character and found you don't like that play style. Perhaps you should go back to stealth.

I'm okay with multiple enemies. But not all the time. It seems like everywhere I find is heavily fortified with too many raiders and too many people wanting to bullets into my body like some kind of bullet absording ballistic tester.

Beyond that the Settlement quest are just fill ins, "save my kidnapped friends" or "stop them from stealing our resources"

I would much rather explore the expansive Boston area with more people, less trigger happy to talk to. Settlements are fill in and you don't get those heavy quest, like blowing up Megaton. Or that quirky girl who purposely forced you to eat radiation because lol experimentation.

I know the Mechanizor is coming back in DLC, but I mean you rarely stumble upon something like that in F4. It's always a blood fight to the near death.

It sounds to me like you just need to lower the difficulty to easy. And make sure you scout ahead so ur not surprised by enemies and firefights. Be tactful and smart. When you see a firefight coming, like a group of gunners or raiders in the next room, take note of where they are and note of cover that's nearby. Try to take out the strongest enemy 1st and then use cover and keep moving after every kill or 2 to ur next cover spot. absolutely use cover aiming, if ur not already aware if you face a corner and aim you will lean out to aim at ur enemy instead of fully exposing yourself.

I'm currently doing a non-stealth build just to make it interesting and I find all of these things to be highly necessary to save ammo. I'm also realizing how extremely useful mines are. Never used them in my stealth playthru, always sold them but I bounce from cover to cover and drop a frag mine at all cover spots before I move and tons of enemies blow themselves sky high as they move to cover. If ur not a stealth build ur only choice is to battle w a plan in mind or ur dead.. until lvl 20 or so.. then ur such a tank not a whole lot can take ya and you have enough ammo to supply an army. Also, as others have said, bring a companion to take some heat off ya and use chems!

But going back to my point, once you clear out an an area for it's "story", there's nothing really more to do there.

I really don't think that's an improvement on the FO4 formula really. Inffact FO4 formula still provides a slightly albeit not much more value than that, I guess? What, I want to visit the Great Kahn's and Boomers again to repeat the same dialog? **** that, I would rather go back to downtown Boston to fight an a$$load of Super Mutants, raiders, gunners, ghouls and feral hounds.

I didn't know there was a "stigma" attached to V.A.T.S., but I apologize if I accidentally stigmatized it in another thread that I started.

I know that I don't much like it, but that's because I'd never played the game before in any form, and the only reference to it was in a Help tab. I was dumbfounded and confused the first several times I tried to use it, because (in retrospect) by the time I'd worked out the controls, my action points had dwindled away and I couldn't shoot. So I just treated the game as a Destiny-style shooter in a post-apocalypse setting.

I think the game would have benefited from a short in-game tutorial for noobs like me during your first enemy encounter after you had access to the system (one that veteran players could simply opt to skip, but one that would teach players like me what it was all about). The Call of Duty series has had these for years, so that players wouldn't just be dumped in and left to learn as they go- usually in the form of an instructor taking you through a training course.

I've finally (at level 47) come to grips with V.A.T.S. somewhat- I even found a legendary VATS-Integrated Assault Rifle which I've upgraded but not used yet. I will concede that it's quite useful for those gunfights when my enemies are dug in or in a low-light area and I just can't seem to draw a bead on them otherwise; then I use VATS as a targeting computer and it finds them for me. Trouble is, it once targeted a friendly who was in close combat with the enemy, and, if I hadn't looked at the name more closely, I would have committed cold-blooded murder by shooting him in the back. VATS apparently doesn't discriminate well between friend and foe.

It wasn't the same dialogue. Unlike the dialogue in F4 that feels more abrituary than the last games. You could have different dialogue sequences and expand further depending on your skills.

One of my biggest biggest biggest Irritants in F4, that shows the abrituaryness of F4 dialogue system is still the Story of the Century quest. That irks me beyond irking. It is such a....

Why did I dump these points into a skill, and not even be able to use them in quest I should be able to use them.

When Piper is doing the interview and she ask, you're coming to diamond city looking for someone. You're presented four options

-You Heard Wrong

-Just Family

-Sean

-None of Your Business

This is where your Charisma skill should come into play. I should be able to try and say, You Heard Wrong, and each other choice is a colored coded perception chance of doing it. To change the narrative of the story.

Than maybe when traveling with Piper you finally expose why you went to Diamond City.

That kind of [censored] irks me.

Meh, I've said it before, I think some of you FO:NV fanz are remembering things with rose colored classes.

Admittedly what FO:NV dialogue options proved were greater than FO4, but I mean is it really that much greater??? To have the prviliege to be able to press a button and" succeed" on another dialog option branch because some stat was at an aribitrarily high enough level? lulz, that's somewhat barely better than what FO4 offers, really. I'll always maintain, what Oblivion and its obtuse speech mini-game was more along the right track, lol. I eventually grew to love that [censored]*.

Perfect Quest in FNV, you need to receive something from the Junkyard lady you have three options on how to get it

-Steal it

-Persuade her

-Bribe her

Not rose colored glasses. I am not saying FNV is the greatest game of all time, but I mean at least I got those choices and options.

And FNV allowed me my Science Skill. In Dialogue.

So when you did Old World Blues or even the one in F3. You could use your science skill in the dialogue options. Which equals hilarity.