Sorting load order : III

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:28 am

Hello all, I'm starting this topic in order to ask you if my load order needs some adjustment, or not. I ran mlox and then changed some things I thought were needed to change.

Anyway, I just got the feeling I'm missing something in my load order, especially with dialogue (I haven't tested the game fully, just for a few days, but it seems to me the new dialogue from LGNPC doesn't show up entirely - there are some NPCs - Fargoth, Arrile, and Caius Cosades, for example - who don't have new dialogue, and just show the generic version (from original Morrowind). I used the 'installers' function of Wrye Mash to install most of my mods, being replacers or not, and I'm not sure if I installed them in correct order.

Anyway, my mod list is as follows:

Spoiler

Plugin1=Morrowind.esm
Plugin2=Tribunal.esm
Plugin3=Bloodmoon.esm
Plugin4=Morrowind Patch 1.6.5 Beta (BTB Edit).esm
Plugin5=Poorly Placed Object Fix V 1.1.esm
Plugin6=Texture Fix 1.9.esm
Plugin7=Texture Fix - Bloodmoon 1.1.esm
Plugin8=Better Heads.esm
Plugin9=Better Heads Tribunal addon.esm
Plugin10=Better Heads Bloodmoon addon.esm
Plugin11=Morrowind Advanced.esm
Plugin12=abotWaterLife.esm
Plugin13=Book Rotate.esm
Plugin14=TR_Data.esm
Plugin15=TR_Map1.esm
Plugin16=TR_Map2.esm
Plugin17=BT_Whitewolf_2_0.esm
Plugin18=Rise of House Telvanni.esm
Plugin19=Quick Char (Timescale Edit).esp
Plugin20=Better Bodies.esp
Plugin21=New Argonian Bodies - Mature.esp
Plugin22=New Khajiit Bodies - Mature.esp
Plugin23=ASE Complete (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin24=Daggerfall Collection Ver 1.1 (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin25=Vivec Expansion 2.0.esp
Plugin26=DB_Attack_Mod3.esp
Plugin27=Passive_Healthy_Wildlife.esp
Plugin28=Othren Manor v1.0.ESP
Plugin29=ImprovedAdamantiumArmor.esp
Plugin30=CleanBitterCoastSounds.esp
Plugin31=CleanEntertainers.esp
Plugin32=CleanHelmOfTohan.esp
Plugin33=CleanMasterIndex.esp
Plugin34=LeFemmArmor.esp
Plugin35=SiegeAtFiremoth.esp
Plugin36=Of Love and Ignorance.esp
Plugin37=Tale of the Devious Trader.esp
Plugin38=Creatures.esp
Plugin39=The Neverhalls.esp
Plugin40=Bloated Caves.esp
Plugin41=CreaturesX-jms_patch.esp
Plugin42=Graphic Herbalism.esp
Plugin43=Texture Fix -TR -1.0.esp
Plugin44=EcoAdjMerchantSkills (Disposition Edit).esp
Plugin45=EcoAdjCrime (Tresspass Edit).esp
Plugin46=NX9_Guards_Complete.ESP
Plugin47=Acrilix's Hi-res Signs.esp
Plugin48=Better Clothes Complete (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin49=IceNioLivRobeReplacerPLUS (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin50=Animated Morrowind 1.0.esp
Plugin51=Better Skulls.ESP
Plugin52=Fast Eddie Fix v .0001.esp
Plugin53=MW_Adv_Required (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin54=Building Up Uvirith's Legacy1.1.ESP
Plugin55=BB_Grimoires.esp
Plugin56=Books of Vvardenfell.esp
Plugin57=MDP Compilation.ESP
Plugin58=Hold it - replacer.esp
Plugin59=Hold it - TR addon.ESP
Plugin60=LGNPC_NoLore_v0_83.esp
Plugin61=Lgnpc_SN.esp
Plugin62=Less_Generic_Tribunal.esp
Plugin63=Less_Generic_Bloodmoon.esp
Plugin64=Less_Generic_Nerevarine.esp
Plugin65=NX9_Guard_LGTrib_patch.ESP
Plugin66=LGNPC_GnaarMok_v1_20.esp
Plugin67=LGNPC_AldVelothi_v1_20.esp
Plugin68=LGNPC_MaarGan_v1_20.esp
Plugin69=LGNPC - Ald Ruhn 1.20 (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin70=LGNPC_HlaOad_v1_32.esp
Plugin71=LGNPC_Aldruhn_v1_20_suppl.esp
Plugin72=LGNPC - Tel Mora 1.20 (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin73=LGNPC_Pelagiad_v1_30.esp
Plugin74=LGNPC_Khuul_v2_20.esp
Plugin75=LGNPC - Vivec Foreign 2.10 (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin76=LGNPC_TelUvirith_v1_20_UI.esp
Plugin77=LGNPC - Secret Masters 1.30 (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin78=LGNPC_IndarysManor_v1_51.esp
Plugin79=LGNPC - Vivec Redoran 1.50 (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin80=LGNPC - Pax Redoran 1.20 (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin81=LGNPC_SoulSicknessPatch_v1_00.esp
Plugin82=NX9_Guard_LGRedoran_Patch.ESP
Plugin83=P.R.E. v4.0.esp
Plugin84=Nudity Greeting Expansion V1.esp
Plugin85=Little Secrets.ESP
Plugin86=Healers.esp
Plugin87=Illy's Solsteim Rumour Fix.esp
Plugin88=Water Level Fix - Full.esp
Plugin89=Uvirith's Legacy_Final_2.0.esp
Plugin90=Talrivian's State-Based HP Mod v.2.2.esp
Plugin91=Psy_IronMeshImprove_Uniques_BMI.esp
Plugin92=Service Requirements (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin93=Animated_Morrowind - Expanded.esp
Plugin94=Area Effect Projectiles.esp
Plugin95=Animated Morrowind II.esp
Plugin96=Welcome to the Arena! v5.0 (normal).esp
Plugin97=sm_ForgottenHalls.esp
Plugin98=Go To Jail 3.7.esp
Plugin99=UL v2.0 RoHT v1.52 Compatibility.esp
Plugin100=MTC-no buff.esp
Plugin101=Antares' Big Mod 5.3.esp
Plugin102=TLM - Complete.esp
Plugin103=UL_MWSE_patch.esp
Plugin104=UL_TLM_ambiance.esp
Plugin105=Improved Inns.esp
Plugin106=Beds4Rent.esp
Plugin107=Journey's End 1.1.esp
Plugin108=BetterBooks_AlchFormfix.esp
Plugin109=Book Rotate - Tribunal v5.3.esp
Plugin110=Book Rotate - Bloodmoon v5.3.esp
Plugin111=Syc_AtHomeAlchemy.esp
Plugin112=TravelingMerchants_v2.2.esp
Plugin113=Illuminated Windows v1.2.esp
Plugin114=Illuminated Windows - Bloodmoon v1.2.esp
Plugin115=Nature of Morrowind - rainforest of the bitter coast.esp
Plugin116=A_flock_of_seagulls.esp
Plugin117=abotWaterLifeTRaddon.esp
Plugin118=abotWhereAreAllBirdsGoing.esp
Plugin119=k_weather.esp
Plugin120=ReptileInseparableSiblings.esp
Plugin121=k_in_tent.esp
Plugin122=KS_Julan_Ashlander Companion_1.3.esp
Plugin123=frostmoth_repaired_v0_31.esp
Plugin124=Museum of Artifacts Improved Expanded.esp
Plugin125=Battlespire Books.esp
Plugin126=TR_CensusAndExciseTravel.esp
Plugin127=Key Replacer Trib & BM.esp
Plugin128=Clean Key Replacer MW Renamer.esp
Plugin129=Graphic Herbalism TR.ESP
Plugin130=Quieter_UI_Sounds.esp
Plugin131=Better Music System (BTB Edit).esp
Plugin132=abotSiltStridersTR.esp
Plugin133=abotGondoliers.esp
Plugin134=BTB - Character.esp
Plugin135=BTB - Spells.esp
Plugin136=BTB - Sorted Alchemy.esp
Plugin137=BTB - Unique Finery Equipment.esp
Plugin138=BTB - Settings.esp
Plugin139=GCD v1.08 with Startscript, fixed [Galsiah].esp
Plugin140=Mashed Lists.esp

Also, in my warnings file I have this:

Spoiler

Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_extrav_2_f.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_5.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_03.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_03.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_1.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_expensive_03.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Not able to find Foot part in BC_shoes_common_4.
Texture "Data Files\Textures\Tx_A_Silver_cuir_duke01.dds" count 4.
Texture "Textures\_land_default.tga" count 3.
Texture "Data Files\Textures\Q_refl_writing_dark.tga" count 3.
Texture "Textures\menu_thick_border_bottom_right_corner.dds" count 2.

What do you think I can do to solve these? I want to have my game as bug and conflict free as possible.

Thanks in advance,
Daedren.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:25 am

Those warnings you are getting look pretty typical, I'm not even sure how to fix them.
The "Foot" warnings are due to Better Clothes, IIRC.

>Plugin140=Mashed Lists.esp

Instead of using Wrye Mash to merge leveled lists, I recommend disabling this mod and using the new way: running "tes3cmd multipatch" to create and enable multipatch.esp.
tes3cmd is a command-line tool that you can get separately.

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 8:29 pm

All those warnings are harmless, and do not need fixing. Just ignore them.

Your LGNPC order looks good to me, but you might want to move them all down lower in your order. That way they have a much better chance of not getting conflicted by other dialog mods.
Keep in mind that no one in Balmora has LGNPC dialog, and the Seyda Neen dialog is not as intensive as other LGNPC mods, so you might not notice any new dialog at first.

I suggest a Merged Object.esp with TESTool or SmartMerger. You have a lot of mods that likely change the same object, so it can be very handy. (they aren't perfect, but for the most part they work just fine)

Instead of using Wrye Mash to merge leveled lists, I recommend disabling this mod and using the new way: running "tes3cmd multipatch" to create and enable multipatch.esp.
tes3cmd is a command-line tool that you can get separately.

Mash is easy to use (relative to command line tools) and builds stable Leveled Lists. Unless you encounter problems with your leveled lists, I suggest keeping what you have now

» Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:18 pm

Keep in mind that no one in Balmora has LGNPC dialog, and the Seyda Neen dialog is not as intensive as other LGNPC mods, so you might not notice any new dialog at first.

Yes, I saw some NPCs at Seyda Neen with new dialogue, that's why I thought it was strange - I'm glad it's not a problem, then!

Instead of using Wrye Mash to merge leveled lists, I recommend disabling this mod and using the new way: running "tes3cmd multipatch" to create and enable multipatch.esp.
tes3cmd is a command-line tool that you can get separately.

I actually have "tes3cmd", but I decided not to use it because of possible errors originated by having so many mods loaded (at least with Tes Tool it was a problem). I think I'm keeping Mash Merged list for now, but thanks anyway for the advice!

I suggest a Merged Object.esp with TESTool or SmartMerger. You have a lot of mods that likely change the same object, so it can be very handy. (they aren't perfect, but for the most part they work just fine)

I always heard that using merged objects wasn't a good idea for the most part, but I could be wrong...
Also, I've read a few moments ago http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1202952-part-of-my-clothing-is-invisible/, which mentions some mods I'm also using. Would it still be a good idea to create merged objects esp?

Actually, I think not all the settings derived from balancing (from BTB's mods) are present. I should confirm it, though, as I haven't played much yet. But would Merged Objects solve this? And if yes, what mods should have I checked when creating the ESP?

Thank you,
D.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:19 am

How would you create a Merged Objects.esp with SmartMerger? Wouldn't it just make one giant esp with all your mods in it?

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:54 am

I always heard that using merged objects wasn't a good idea for the most part, but I could be wrong...
Also, I've read a few moments ago http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1202952-part-of-my-clothing-is-invisible/, which mentions some mods I'm also using. Would it still be a good idea to create merged objects esp?

Many people use it safely. I've never had problems with it. (it's Merged Dialog that you want to avoid!)
I use all those exact same clothing mods (except the glove one) and they are Merged with TESTool, and I have never had the problem that Blouge has.
To be careful, don't merge Better Clothes.

How would you create a Merged Objects.esp with SmartMerger? Wouldn't it just make one giant esp with all your mods in it?

To be honest, I don't know how SmartMerger works. But I was under the impression it was a new tool in development that would replace and surpass TESTool.

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:58 am

Many people use it safely. I've never had problems with it. (it's Merged Dialog that you want to avoid!)
I use all those exact same clothing mods (except the glove one) and they are Merged with TESTool, and I have never had the problem that Blouge has.
To be careful, don't merge Better Clothes.

Oh, ok, thank you for clarifying that! I'll create the merged objects.esp and make sure I disable Better Clothes first. I'll see then if I get good results!

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:40 am

Yeah, no harm.
If you get bad results, you can disable the merge.esp. Then Update and Repair your save

» Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:03 am

To be honest, I don't know how SmartMerger works. But I was under the impression it was a new tool in development that would replace and surpass TESTool.

It has about a dozen rules of orders it follows. Each one gets finer depending on the objective at hand. I've mentioned it before.

Yes Smartmerger will combine plugins into a single mod. It is not so much an objective, but a side effect of the merging process. But if it removes the issues you are having and you can't bypass them normally, then I would think it would be preferred. SmartMerger tries to combine all 'Changes' in mods, which are otherwise unrelated. Three mods may change the same weapon, one does damage, one does the image, and another the description and enchantment. As long as they don't step on eachother's toes, they all take effect along with any previously set data from before.

General overview: If it's missing (new records) it adds them. Next it is compared vs the master file(s). If its in any master file, then it ignores the change. This follows the assumption that there's minor changes between the main files from the official updates, that might be present in mods. Because of that it assumes it isn't a changed value. For changes otherwise, think of it as having a checkbox on each field if it has changed or not. If it has changed more than once it tells you as a warning during it's output (and what the previous file that did a change was as well as the current).