Soul Cairn: Can you destroy it, escape it, or free souls?

Post » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:37 pm

Hey guys, as I've said before, I'm not real great with TES lore (I love writing but TES' lore gets me confused :P ), so forgive me if this is all incorrect, but I have a few questions/comments/theories on the Soul Cairn.

First question: I assume that Bethesda wanted the Soul Cairn to almost be like the TES version of hell- a place where souls are imprisoned for eternity facing fear and torment all the time. The main difference, of course, is that the Soul Cairn isn't for evil's entrapment, but rather the Ideal Masters don't discriminate towards anyone. That being said, in Christian beliefs, you cannot escape hell once imprisoned there, but is that the same case with the Soul Cairn?

I know that the bodies of the souls are most likely long-gone, considering some of them refer to distant past events and people (IE- one refers to Potema). However, would it be possible for a soul to escape the realm? It seems like the souls trapped there enter a state of psychosis, so I'd assume they'd be too confused to try to find a way out, but just imagine one of them COULD think straight: would there be a way for them to work together with non-trapped mortals (or immortals) that visit the realm, and perhaps find a way to be released from their prison and go to Aetherius?

Second question: Can the Soul Cairn potentially be destroyed? It is a realm of Oblivion, and it's not entirely clear if a plane of Oblivion can be destroyed or not, since the realms seem to be an extension of the Daedric Prince involved. However, the Ideal Masters do not seem to be Daedric Princes, but rather, some other form of life. Say an individual grew in power so much that they could potentially destroy the Soul Cairn- if they were successful, what would happen to the souls that were trapped, and what would happen to the Ideal Masters? Did the Ideal Masters create the Soul Cairn? If they did, it'd be possible they'd be destroyed with the Soul Cairn, but from all we know, the Ideal Masters were once mortals. If an individual was able to destroy the Soul Cairn, would the souls be freed or destroyed with it? Additionally, what would happen with soul gems, particularly the black variants, if the realm was destroyed? Would they lose their power altogether or would people still be able to use them?

Third question: Aside from the above two scenarios, if an individual had enough power, would they be able to set all the souls inside free? If, in example, the Daedric Princes all joined together (I know how unlikely that is- just saying, for the purpose of this question), would their power be strong enough to set the captive souls free from this realm, or are the souls trapped there for literal eternity?

Thanks ahead of time for any response, and again, I apologize for any ignorance. :P

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~Sylvia~
 
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Post » Sat Aug 23, 2014 4:35 am

Its unlikely that you can free any soul en masse (And even if you could, expect a long, drawn out process that's so incredibly difficult the only one that could pull it off by some miracle is a PC), and given how Oblivion tends to twist a beings soul, the souls would probably dissipate without the Carin to support them. Even if you could escape the Soul Carin, don't expect to last long without it.

As for destroying it, that role falls to Alduin and Sakatal, which isn't much better. But the rest of existence is pretty much null at that point anyway.

Another Princedom would probably take over the trade (It's highly unlikely the Ideal Masters run a monopoly on it to begin with), with most signs pointing to Molag.

His name was Durnehviir, and he's probably the closest thing you could get to "freeing" any of the souls. In other words, a temporary escape. Once you enter Oblivion, Oblivion enters into you and et cetera.

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Joe Bonney
 
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Post » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:52 pm

I wouldn't really compare the Soul Cairn to Hell, I mean an eternity of dreary boredom is a bit different than an eternity of fire and torture (the closest thing to Hell in TES would probably be either the Deadlands or Coldharbour, despite the lack of damnation).

Well Miraak was close to escaping Apocrypha, however whether or not he was actually bound to the plane isn't really known (he probably wasn't), and he also required an immense amount of time, power, and knowledge to do so. So I'd say a person completely escaping the soul cairn would be next to impossible.

Daedra form Oblivion Planes out of themselves. Everything and everyone that reside in them are a part of it including the mortal souls bound there. Destroying the plane would most likely destroy the soul, however, seeing as the Ideal Masters feed off the souls in their realm, it is quite possible that the souls are not fully bound there. This is supported by the fact that according to Durnehviir, the bond between the soul and the soul cairn becomes stronger with time, implying that it takes quite a bit of time for a soul to actually be connected to the plane.

If the Cairn was destroyed, souls would probably be recycled after their soulgem is used (sort of the default AE). I would have to disagree with Dargor's point above as I don't believe Princes would just be able to steal a set alignment of AE.

Possibly, as I said above it is possible that the souls are not fully connected to the plane.

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Cheryl Rice
 
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Post » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:20 am

@Dargor- Hmm, thanks for the answer. I ask this only because, even though it's a game, you really can pity the people trapped inside. I would love if Bethesda gave the opportunity for the PC to try to free them at least. :P
@Dovahsebrom-
1) Well, I always thought hell probably will include terror and confusion in addition to the fire as the Bible mentions.
2) It's interesting to think of who possibly created the Soul Cairn. If the Ideal Masters were once mortals, they'd have to have become pretty powerful to be able to create their own realm like that, which almost makes you think about them possibly having an allegiance with an already-existing Daedric Prince. Anyways, if the souls aren't entirely bound to the Soul Cairn, then you're saying it would be possible for someone from outside to free them, given the individual has the right amount of power?
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kat no x
 
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Post » Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:48 pm

From http://www.imperial-library.info/content/soul-cairn.

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Katie Samuel
 
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Post » Sat Aug 23, 2014 5:31 am

It is implied in Battlespire that the Ideal Masters were mortals as they reside within coffins and say this "Each mote of mana spent diminishes our eternity", and this "But you speak with our brethren, who perhaps better recall wearing flesh". I've heard theories that the Ideal Masters could have been Ayleids (given their connection with soul gems), but whether or not this is true is obviously questionable.

I'm not saying it is possible, I'm saying that it could be possible.

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Darren
 
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Post » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:35 pm

@lady_freyja- Thanks for that. Assuming Battlespire is meant to be 100% canon to TES lore, that clears up whether or not someone can be freed from the Soul Cairn.
@Dovahsebrom- Hmm, interesting. I'd love to see Bethesda clarify on a lot of these things. The idea of them being former Ayleids seems plausible, and it definitely would be pretty intriguing.
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Marlo Stanfield
 
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Post » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:55 pm

Quest line suggestion: You are an imprisoned spirit trying to escape the Soul Cairn, and indeed Oblivion, to return to his/her loved ones on Tamriel.

That could be pretty cool.

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Chris BEvan
 
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