I thought it was certain that Aetherius is not within Oblivion, but rather the opposite.


If the Eight are alive and living in Aetherius, what makes them different from the Magne-Ge? The Aedra are supposed to be those who either transformed into the Earth Bones, or subgradiated into the mortal races.

St Jiub, the problem with your illustration is that oblivion is sitting between Mundas and Aetherius.

Well fine, replace "Mundus" with "Oblivion" then. Either way, the idea remains the same- a place between worlds, where their energies intermingle and (after)life is sustainable, even if only for a short time. There's also the matter of the giant star dominating Sovngarde's sky, which suggests to me that we're outside of the Mundus proper.

Just to note, it's Shor's schtick to be absent all the time. Always away, somewhere else. He's the "Missing God", after all. So it doesn't really matter if he's in Sovngarde or not, since he'll never be there when you're there.

But we already know that the Planets are the physical bodies of the Aedra. Are you saying that there is a film of Aetherius surrounding the body-planets that technically makes them located in Aetherius? If so, there's really no practical difference to our previous conception. Which is the point I guess?

Its more like concentric shells, though each shell is infinite in size.
The Aurbis consists of Aetherius, with Oblivion nestled inside it.
In Oblivion lies the Mundus, but it is not a part of it, as Oblivion is not a part of Aetherius.
The centre of all creation is Tamriel.

The stars are holes to Aetherius, thus Atherius is not in Oblivion, it is the other way around.

"Space is the interpretation of Oblivion, which is black and empty and surrounds the mortal plane. Space is infinite, but it acts just like a planet, in that Oblivion is 'surrounded' by Aetherius. You can see Aetherius by the stars."
-Cosmology

Unless the planets are the same as stars, just on a lesser scale. Can we actually see the planets and distinguish them in any of the games? To the naked human eye, Jupiter can appear to be a bright star. Perhaps the brightest stars in the sky are in fact the Aedra-planets which are in turn parts of Aetherius that are "seeping through" to Mundus in the same manner as stars. Maybe that was part of the "deal" the gods made in order to stabilize Mundus. Instead of being able to traverse freely between Mundus and Aetherius, their respective patches of Aetherius became entangled to the Mundus in the same way the tears of the Magne-Ge allow Aetherius to bleed into Mundus. As far as whether or not Aedra can travel throughout the rest of Aetherius from their own planes is unknown to us. We only know that the Magne-Ge refused to give up parts or all of themselves to stabilize Mundus, and that they left for Aetherius instead. This does not mean that the weakened Aedra who did stabilize Mundus still couldn't go back to Aetherius, or that the stipend to that was a limited part of it, i.e., their planets. There is no record of the Magne-Ge "sealing off" Aetherius from the Aedra, only that instead of sacrificng some of their power, they didn't. That's the only difference.

Perhaps the Aedra, as stated by Martin in Oblivion, cannot manifest physically on Tamriel because a lot of their power might go towards stabilizing their planet-gates to Aetherius, as to allow mortals the opportunity to have their souls recycled. So in essence, they may not have only sacrificed to stabilize Mundus, but they may have sacrificed their ability to intervene on Mundus in order to stabilize their presence in Aetherius as well, so that mortals who worship them can have a chance at entering the dream-sleeve. This means that all of their faith in mortals to counteract the Daedra and save the world would have to rest in the hands of Champions, which would make sense considering the PCs of the games. It makes a little bit of sense when you think about it. If your soul goes to a Daedra lord, you're done, he/she/it does with it what he/she/it wills. If you worship Sithis, perhaps you zero-sum upon death, who knows. If you worship the Aedra, you have a chance to live again because they willfully sacrifice their intervention abilities to stabilize their Aetherius planes. Shor is a wild card in that he must put forth most of his effort in allowing souls to stay for awhile before getting recycled, to revel in their Nordic glories and stories. Heh.

Really, I don't think, aside from Oblivion realms and Sovngarde, there is much of an afterlife in the TES universe. The other Aedra most likely send you straight to the dreem-sleeve upon entering their domain. Perhaps it is a cooperative effort on part of all of them to do so. Shor is just different, because after all, he's the trickster.

The stars are totally different from the planets. The planets are the infinite realms-and-bodies of the gods, whereas the sun and stars are just holes ripped into the fabric of oblivion that allow the magic of Aetherius to leak out in the form of light.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Imperial_Orrery portrays things differently.
Really people, fun and all that, isnt it ultimately fruitless to start debating these basic foundations?
We could tear the whole house apart.

I <3 this.

Downloading new headcanon...
Installing new headcanon...
Installation complete.

EDIT: Merari, I really don't see how the Orrery contradicts any of that.

Maybe the common ground could be that the bodies of gods were made of aetheric matter?

It certainly contradicts Cosmology, The Anuad and the Monomyth.
This is such basic stuff at some level Im really surprised were having this conversation.
I dont like turning foundations into quicksand, lest the whole house sink.

Everything is made of Aetheric matter in that everything is made of creatia. From that perspective, Mundas and the Daedric Realms are also in Aetherius.

Which are written from an in-universe perspective (especially the Anuad and Monomyth), and therefore have exactly as much credibility as the Imperial documents that say good little boys and girls go to Aetherius when they die.

But even overlooking that, I'm afraid I still don't see any glaring contradictions.

It contradicts the matryoshka nestling of spheres and consequent subgradiate nature of existence.

I'd say that's obvious, but I also think that all et'ada are just congealed creatia/aetheric matter/magicka. I'm not sure if this is really backed up, but if all the et'ada were originally in Aetherius, which is the source of magicka, which I think of as what everything in Aetherius is composed of, then it makes sense to me.

EDIT: Ninja'd several times.

By making portals between the spheres other than literally crashing through the barriers? Because that idea is a http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Oblivion_Gates

No, because it goes Anu + Padomay, Et'Ada, Aedra + Daedra + Magna Ge.
Aurbis, Aetherius, Oblivion, Mundus, Nirn, Tamriel.
Aetherius is several layers higher. Its silly to think the Aedra reside there. They do not. The Magna Ge do and their leaving caused holes through which raw creatia enters the Mundus.
The Aedra are bound to the Mundus, by their choice and this is what seperates them from the Magna Ge who left and from the Daedra who sit at the sidelines and throw empty beercans.

This ^

That they are not in Aetherius is the point of the Aedra.

I don't see how it contradicts my post. Like I said, if the planets were were actually as big as the models in the Orrery suggest, then you would be able to look up at them in the night sky and see them with the naked eye. Some of those planets are bigger than the two moons which appear to be MASSIVE in the night sky. The other option is that they are that big (relative to how big Nirn is pictured in the model) and they are just further away, which, again, would make them appear to be about as bright as the stars.

Either way, it doesn't contradict the theory that the planets that are the Aedra aren't in fact huge Aetherius Gates that the Aedra use most of their full remaining power to stabilize. They would be functioning the exact same way as Oblivion gates, only more massive. The Magne-Ge's rips in the fabric of Oblivion could be akin to a multitude of Oblivion gates, except instead of leading to Oblivion, they lead to the infinite realm of Aetherius. The downside is you can't get to the stars as a mortal, unless you invent some fresh new technomagic flying machine (KINMUNE anyone?).



Which would also coincide with the theory. The planets are the infinite realms-and-bodies of the gods, Aetheirus is infinite as well. How can an infinite realm and body coexist outside of Aetherius, right next to Oblivion (as in the night sky, which is Oblivion), right next to Mundus? A logical explanation is that the Aedra willfully forfeited their direct power over Mundus to stabilize themselves (the planets, Aetherius) so as to allow soul recycling to be possible. I mean, if the Daedra have such a hard time manifesting in Mundus, then the Planetary Aedra who are technically orbiting Mundus and aren't in space (Oblivion) should have an easier time of manifesting in Mundus, but they can't, and my guess is because some sort of controlled pathway to Aetherius must be kept open so that mortals have some sort of hope for their souls.

By that logic, the planet-gods can actually be parts of Aetherius. If its possible for such tears to exist (when the Magne-Ge left) then it should have been possible for the Aedra who invested themselves in Nirn to "tear" open parts of Oblivion to allow controlled parts of Aetherius to seep through. They are the same as the Magne-Ge after all, albeit at reduced power from forming Mundus, and the effect of that reduced power is that the remainder of their energy goes towards retaining their link to Aetherius.

Because Oblivion is also infinite. In fact, that is why they appear spherical - nested infinities. Just as is described in Cosmology. Where is the issue?


The Aedra don't have the same restrictions as the Daedra do. They are free to meddle with Mundus. The infrequency with which they do so is because they are dead, not distracted.

But that makes no sense. It doesnt fit the story.
The Aedra are the Mundus. It is their project. They decided to stay.
They would not want to return to Aetherius. They are not Magna Ge.