Sounds like fairy dust wishful thinking, doesn't it?

Shor is a very racist god. I doubt it. Gods themselves are usually pretty racist. Except Imperial gods, since that pantheon was made to accommodate all races to make rule easier.

Please, let's keep it civil. Disagreeing with eachother is perfectly fine. I, myself, am still neutral and not sure what to think. But there's no need to provoke any flamewars.

I personally thought that was done to make it more clear that Sovngarde is part of a Nordic culture. But I understand what you mean.

trying to dodge my point I see.. the Soul has no race, as such if a person lives as a Nord would, they are eligible for entry to Sovngarde, just as any Nord... the fact we see Souls in game take the form of a certain race does not mean the Soul has race, it is just used to help the game distinguish certain people..


as for examples of Nords who did not die Valiantly in battle:

Like I said, Froki Whetted-blade... most players who kill him do it in his sleep.. but he goes to Sovngarde not because he died Valiantly in Battle, but because Shor finds him worthy..

Want another example? Jurgen Windcaller, founder of the Greybeards.. he is not know to have died Valiantly in battle.... but he is there because Shor found him worthy...



Like I said, Sovngarde is NOT Valhalla, no matter what society the Nords were based on...

Shor Picks and chooses who he allows in, as seen by Froki and Jurgen..

If you believe in Shor and die valiantly you will go to Sovngarde.

Why do we see Nords in Sovngarde? Because Nords believe in Shor and die valiantly. Shouldn't many Imperials go to Sovngarde? Colovians are of Nordic decent and view Lorkhan as Shor.

I'm agnostic on the topic of whether non-Nords can go to Sovngarde, though I'm inclined to the side that says it's possible. Mythopeia is too much a thing in Elder Scrolls to make absolutes.

However the dragonborn is clearly an exception, and so is the Ebony Warrior who's almost certainly http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Ebon_Arm.

I wouldn't say almost certainly.. if he is they didn't do an awesome job portraying him by the book.

No I didn't dodge the point, I said the spirit takes form from what the mind thinks, and your mind knows you are not or are a nord no matter what you try and believe. Its like saying dont think about something. You will anyway. As for Froki:

I doubt the devs bothered to differentiate how he died to get in. And Jurgen getting in doesn't mean all nords who die in battle don't get in. It just means that isn't the only way for a nord to get in. Check my thread, I'm already well aware:

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1459821-jurgen-windcaller-and-sovngarde/

There's nothing pointing to non nords getting in besides very rare godlike exceptions. The mind knows what you are no matter what, and the power of belief is of the many, not the individual. And many already believe Shor lets only Nords in. So Shor lets only Nords in. Only way this will change is if the belief of Shor changes.

You'd think that if it were possible, they'd put at least A nonnord there in the only game we're likely to ever see the place. They put mages there to show its not just warriors.

edit: Also, if you "mantle" a nord, or make yourself a nord through belief, then you would become a nord. So that still shows non nords can't get in if you have to change yourself to enter. If that is even possible on your own. You're not gonna see an elf in Sovngarde in the most elf hating gods realm ever.

As far as your example, while the foster parents clearly were accepting of this dunmer, those in Sovngarde might be less open minded. A dunmer spending eternity with nords would probably be more akin to punishment than reward. You can find a maximum of two non-nords in Sovngarde during the main quest visit, the player of a non-nord character and Alduin.

As of now, I see no evidence to support the idea of non-Nords going to Sovngarde (outside of the Main Quest visitation).

I don't know for certain whether non-nords can get in or not, but I'd like to think it's possible, although probably rare. All our character did was jump into a portal, and you don't need to be a nord to jump.

There's also the possibility that our character IS shor, in which case it's entirely up to us who gets in.

That doesn't deal with soul alignment though. You're still alive and well when you jump. Its a forced means used by Alduin.

Whoa... how very Dante of you (Catholic, dare I say).

I don't bring real life stuff into it. I just think the spirit takes form from how the mind perceives itself. Which subconsciously is independent of your active conscious. So in the end your mind knows what you are no matter what you try telling yourself.

Well I don't know if it matters how you get into the party so long as you get in. I would consider it much like a realm of oblivion in that you can be invited by the host, sneak in a window, or even burst your way through the front door.

Also what if some reality bending ritual took place to remove the nordic influence from shor, much like the selectives did with akatosh?

You still sound... but that's where I'll leave it. Not intending to turn this into a philosophical discussion. Just wanted to tell you that.

I don't know if its possible or not, but my point is as things are now, non nords cant get in by normal unforced means.

I don't know what you mean by how I sound, but I'm talking strictly within TES. My real life beliefs don't reflect on what I am saying. In real life I am Christian/agnostic. In other words, not a very good christian.

Personally, I think someone like that would be more at home in the Shivering Isles.