I hear different sides of it,

People say that everybody can go to Sovngarde aslong as they acknowledge theirselves with the Norse traditions and live as a great warrior. (Or mage, you got those guys in Sovngarde too.)

Yet others say that Sovngarde is a place for Nords only, no matter what.

And that makes me wonder.

Let's take this for example. A Dunmer shieldmaiden who was found and raised by Nords, and thus grew up with the heart of one. A fierce woman proud to fight with valor. Do you think Shor would accept her, despite her loyalty to Norse traditions? After all, she's born a Mer.

That'll be depressing for the elf. You know, growing up as a Nord. Feeling isolated within the Mer community. And hopeless when she finds out she won't be reunited with her Nord friends.

Harsh world out there.

I still don't know what to think though.

In before insaneo wako wishful thinking theories of the contrary.

Yes, its for Nords and Nords alone. People bring up the dragonborn, but besides the fact that its rather obvious he's intended to be a nord, even if he or she is not, they saved Sovngarde from Alduin, so of course something like that with a deed so immensely legendary will get you in. You saved the place. But besides that, no, non nords aren't getting in. Soul alignment won't matter because the power of belief affects the universe, and the belief established by the many already firmly established Sovngarde as a Nord only place. People say nothing distinguishes a soul by the race of the flesh, but the mind, the spirit does. How else does the soul know what you look like when dead? Like those in the soul cairn?

if you are a , but are raised like a Nord, Acknowledge the Nord Pantheon, and live with the Mindset of a Nord, you are essentially Mantling a Nord, are you not?

in which case I think you would be allowed into Sovngarde...



remember the Ebony Warriors last words when he dies? "At Last, Sovngarde...", even though he was a Redguard... Its obvious he Acknowledges the ways of Nordic Society (he uses the Thu'um), as such he went to Sovngarde...

Pretty sure it is only for nords with some exceptions. The Dragonborn is allowed into Sovngarde no matter what his/her race is. Of course, depending on your choices you could end up starting battle for your soul since as a werewolf, your soul is supposed to go to Hircine, and I think Daedra claim the souls of their champion which really messes stuff up if you do multiple Daedric Quests. Then there is the fact there is a spot in Sovngarde for you as well and the heroes seem to imply your soul is tied to Sovngarde no matter what.

It is very possible a Non- Nord who gains Kynes/Talos's/whoevers favor they need's, Favor then might be allowed. Never really explained fully

You don't mantle mortals, you mantle gods. No matter what, your mind will know your race, which will keep you you, and that will keep you out. Belief of the many establishes things in the universe, not the belief of one.

A Soul has no specified Race, this is why reincarnations can be of various races after passing through the Dreamsleeve (Nerevarine was a reincarnation of Lord nerevar.. However the Nerevarine can be many races, none of which are Chimer)..

and Exactly, Power of Belief.. If one Believes in the Nord Ways, lives by them, and honors them, they are Mantling a Nord, and as such would be treated as one in the afterlife...

Only nords go to Sovengarde unless they're werewolves.

Half nords (example: A nord parent and elf/orc/khajiit/argoanian parent) still go to Sonvengarde assumably.

Not necessarily, as you said earlier, "The Power of Belief".. if one believes in the Nord ways, Honors them, and Lives by them, there is no difference between them and a Nord on a spiritual level

Then what are those things in the soul cairn looking like races? You're mistaking the soul energy with the spirit. They are two different things. The soul is energy, indistinguishable by race. The spirit is what carries your mind to wherever you will go.

And the power of belief is of the many, not the few. One person believing wont change anything.

Again, the many change things with belief, not one.

not entirely true, many real world things were changed for the better because of a few people who believed in what was right.

Well, I guess a non-Nord Dragonborn will have more chance getting there, if he/she wishes.

Having saved the realm from the god of destruction. Atleast Tsun would allow you, and being the god of trials, and a god in the first place, that'll be quite the honour that can't be overlooked that easilly.

A non-nord who'se no Dragonborn? Probably not a chance.

That's like saying that anyone can go to Hircine's Hunting Grounds as long as you are a good hunter.

the spirits in the Soul Cairn simply have an Appearance of their former life as to give a recognizable appearance to Interact with, it does not mean a Soul has a Specified race (Gameplay =/= lore)...
Like I said, we see Reincarnations throughout the franchise of varying races, proving a Soul has no Specified race..

Not entirely true. while it is true mass belief can change things on a larger level, it is never said that an Individuals beliefs have no power..

Like I said, a Soul has no specified Race.. as such, if the individual is a Redguard, or Imperial, but was raised as a Nord, believed in Nord beliefs, and honored the Nords traditions, on a Spiritual Level they are no different then a Nord, and as such may be granted entry to Sovngarde

if Shor found them Worthy that is.. I point out there are many Nords who are not granted Entry to Sovngarde, because they are not worthy in Shors eyes...

Actually, if you gain His favor it is very likely he would let you in. He seems to care more about how much you care about the hunt then if you are a werewolf or not. Being a werewolf just forces your entry with no other choice.

Also known as bandits. I doubt Shor would let those people in, Nord or not.

?Not sure what you're talking about.

There's nothing saying the spirit doesn't. What shapes the appearance is the mind, and the mind would know no matter what that you are whatever you are. There's no escaping it.

The soul has no race because it is just energy. The spirit however is different. And the individual person may have some power in belief but not enough to go against everyone else who believes Sovngarde is Nord only land. This theory has no ground.

And the Nords who dont get in dont get in because they didn't die in battle, live a life of battle, or die valiantly in some way.

Exactly.

edit: Also on gameplay not equaling lore, its all we have to go off, as lore doesn't delve into it, so in this case until it is really covered, it does.

With all due respect, I don't find it that much of a great comparrison.

Since I considered faith and tradition as a motive, not how skillful somebody is.

I'm not saying that my example is true and a 100% chance of going to Sovngarde. It was merely an example that supported my question.

see, now your falling back on Hearsay and backed yourself into a Corner....

you just admitted a Soul has no race, however it is clearly stated it is the "Soul" that goes to Sovngarde.. (go read anything on the UESP or ingame books referring to Sovngarde).. Alduin retreated there to devour the "Souls" to regain his strength..

and there are Plenty of Nords who did not go to Sovngarde who died in battle or in honor..
Sovngarde is not a "hey, any nord who dies with Honor gets in!", Sovngarde is "Anyone who dies that Shor Deems worthy" gets in.. Froki Whetted-Blade did not die valiantly in Battle, but he is there...
Sovngarde is not the same as Valhalla, no matter its origins...

The Theory has plenty of ground to stand on, the fact you refuse to Acknowledge it does not mean it doesn't exist..

We see no non Nords in Sovngarde. This includes (the) Ebon(y) Arm (Warrior).

To be fair, "I'm a Nord in my heart so that means I am one" doesn't sound a lot better.

A Breton can believe he's an Altmer all day, but he never will be.

K, firstly, soul and spirit are common words that are used to mean the same thing. I am using them to separate the energy of the spirit and the spirit itself. The mind, and the soul. With me now?

And no, any nord who dies in battle goes to sovngarde. Give an example that we know of that this isn't true. And I'm not talking about running away and being killed by an arrow.

edit: And no outside influence.

That's not the way I meant it, my sincere apologies if it sounded like that.

I actually ment that, if one lived the Norse traditions, and had valor and honor in a way that would please Shor, it might (No guarantees) allow the person to go to Sovngarde.