Spears and Crossbows.

Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:33 am

Two, whole new set of animations would have been required. If you don't like that, then know the Red Legions hated spears and crossbows as much as jungle.
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Tammie Flint
 
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Post » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:42 pm

Two, whole new set of animations would have been required.

Hasn't stopped modders from making it work in OB, with animations.
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Sarah Bishop
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:18 am

Two, whole new set of animations would have been required. If you don't like that, then know the Red Legions hated spears and crossbows as much as jungle.


There actually was a tradition of carrying huge spears amongst Cyrodiils jungle bandits in a fashion reminiscent to the hoplites from the slave revolt. This tradition and the use of spears in general has become outmoded ever since Mahrukh was ambushed once. He asked his assailants what they were compensating for. Promptly they dropped their spears and lifted up their sarongs too prove their manhood and were subsequently slaughtered.
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~Amy~
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:46 am

There actually was a tradition of carrying huge spears amongst Cyrodiils jungle bandits in a fashion reminiscent to the hoplites from the slave revolt. This tradition and the use of spears in general has become outmoded ever since Mahrukh was ambushed once. He asked his assailants what they were compensating for. Promptly they dropped their spears and lifted up their sarongs too prove their manhood and were subsequently slaughtered.


What info is this from? I'd like to read this.
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Chenae Butler
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:08 am

That's all there is. I took the hoplites from the http://www.imperial-library.info/obbooks/songofpelinal.shtml.
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Brooke Turner
 
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Post » Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:31 pm

What about the Maruhk bit?
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Joie Perez
 
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Post » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:56 pm

It's Monkey Dung. Good dung by the reaction. :)
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hannah sillery
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:09 am

Hah. Indeed.
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chirsty aggas
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:51 am

Impulse wants me to say "it was just game mechanics," but then I remember that if mods can make it happen (and they have), it couldn't have been an impossibility. I am now thinking that it might be one of the products of Bethesda's streamlining of the game. For example:
-Gauntlets now are a single unit instead of two.
-Pauldrons are fused to curiasses.
-No long/short blade differentiation.
-No medium armor.

Now remember back to Morrowind. One of the things I really, really, emphatically, completely despised about that game was that Long Blades had a clear spot of prominence over all the other weapons. There were a lot more of them, they all did more damage, and they had Trueflame and Hopesfire, two of the most powerful weapons in the game. They even outdo the Hunter's Spear from Bloodmoon. So from Bethesda's view, they're just getting rid of unnecessary features by removing spears.

Crossbows, I'm not sure. I liked the crossbow a lot. But again, I see a Bethesda-streamlining aspect here. The main difference between Morrowind's longbows and crossbows was that a longbow had a range of damage (say, 1-30) if it hit, whereas the crossbow would definitely do a certain amount of damage (say, 20) if it hit. Because Oblivion did away with the roll-hit system in favor of the contact-hit system, the longbow-crossbow choice became merely an aesthetic one. From a game mechanic standpoint, they would be equal. And so, Bethedsa nixes crossbows, because apparently you can't have a fantasy game without longbows.

I'm not at all happy with that decision. Heck, in Morrowind, most of my combat-oriented characters use spears, and the marksmen use a crossbow. But what's done is done. From a lore standpoint, there is absolutely no reason for a lack of those weapons, unless Bethesda comes up with an ex machina to explain it in the next game.
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xemmybx
 
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Post » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:46 pm

Hmmm......Perhaps spears are un-used in Mirrowind because of the land area? It is a mountainous region, with many swamps and pools of water. Maybe they don't use spears merely because it's to difficult retrieve them, if thrown, attack with them, if climbing up a mountain, and other such things. Or perhaps they have advanced enough that they no longer need the spear, as you said it is the "most basic of weapons". The second would by Cyrodill's only real excuse, since there are many hilly areas, and even in the mountains there would be flat areas.

As for the crossbow, perhaps it is lost. Maybe Cyrodill lost touch with that weapon, as did Morrowind. Though it's hard to believe that a place filled to the brim with Dwemer remains has not one crossbow....or maybe there was. Maybe it an unrecognized weapon that an adventurer stumbled upon, then sent back to the mainland, or to a Dwemer Reshearcher, to discover what it is and how it works. And our charactor starts off just a few weeks after this was found, meaning it wasn't in mass production- nor any production- yet.


Your theories fall apart when you consider that Morrowind DOES have crossbows, it's Oblivion that doesn't, and the reason for it, in this case, is indeed purely a matter of game design. There is no lore explanation for it. Even if one assumes that crossbows were some form of lost technology, which seems unlikely, given that they weren't exactly rare in Morrowind, even if they did only go up to Dwemer quality, I find it unlikely that there is any justification for spears not existing in Cyrodiil.

Impulse wants me to say "it was just game mechanics," but then I remember that if mods can make it happen (and they have), it couldn't have been an impossibility. I am now thinking that it might be one of the products of Bethesda's streamlining of the game. For example:
-Gauntlets now are a single unit instead of two.
-Pauldrons are fused to curiasses.
-No long/short blade differentiation.
-No medium armor.


Obviously it's NOT that it couldn't have been done, most likely, Bethesda simply wanted to, as you say, streamline the game, or just got lazy and didn't want to bother with another type of weapon.

I would say archery in Tamriel is not that well developed, because anybody can fire any bow. It is not even possible for you or me to pick up and fire a 100 pound bow without considerable training. Archery in Tamriel seems to be more of a thing for hunters, who happen to use their bows for fighting on occasion. If some culture were to develop stronger archery, then they would e unstoppable for a while (because Tamriel has apparently never seen this before) An arrow fired by a 200 pound bow can do much more damage to your body than a bullet, think about that.


Anyone can also fight with a claymore in Tamriel, or really any weapon. While your effectiveness with a weapon is determined by your skill, the game does not have any skill or attribute based restrictions on what sort of weapon you can use. So anyone being able to pick up a bow and use it may simply be a matter of gameplay mechanics, alternately, there could be http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidNotDoTheResearch.
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Joanne
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 3:59 am

Some people want special bows that take too long to load and need special arrows called bolts. M'aiq thinks they are idiots.
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Emma Parkinson
 
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Post » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:55 pm

For the same reasons Sutch wasn't in it.
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Joanne Crump
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:15 am

As for spears...well...who knows. They cut things left and right from Morrowind to Oblivion, "streamlining" what they could...so it really just makes sense to remove a weapon that, in popular opinion, wasn't used much.

I actually use them quite a lot. They're very effective weapons early on when longblades are poorer quality, and give you the defensive capabilities of greater range.
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candice keenan
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:08 am

Isn't it likely the "streamlining" came from making the game to fit on consoles? Why else so many cuts? All that haphazard VA and graphical bells and whistles needs space in memory too. And you've only got so much on your next gen console (at the time).
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ILy- Forver
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:10 am

It makes all of the skills evenly distributed. Equal amounts of skills for each of the three disciplines. That's the reason. It was streamlining the character process so that all characters who played could succeed relatively successfully. Its also why Blade and Blunt skill perks are the same. Mirroring gameplay so that people don't feel like they're missing something.

I mean, you don't complain that you have to switch weapons once your staff runs out of charge instead of just whacking people with it.
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Undisclosed Desires
 
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Post » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:48 am

It makes all of the skills evenly distributed. Equal amounts of skills for each of the three disciplines. That's the reason. It was streamlining the character process so that all characters who played could succeed relatively successfully. Its also why Blade and Blunt skill perks are the same. Mirroring gameplay so that people don't feel like they're missing something.

But having non-mirrored gameplay leaves room for making each combat style feel more unique. Missing something is what adds replay value.
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Tracy Byworth
 
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