I mean, is there a lore explanation for this? NOT just physics or laziness?

I mean my theory is that maybe crossbows were a Dwemer technollogy that is slowly being lost or is limited to Morrowind, but for spears, I don't know, I though spears were supposed to be the most basic of weapons.

In FACT I remember reading somewhere that in the Middle Ages swords were only used as backup weapons to spears, almost the equavlant of a modern day equavlant of an assault rifle to a handgun.

But seriously is there a lore explanation to this, maybe do people in Cyrodiil consider them unhonorable? Maybe they're only used for campaigns and not in common use with gaurds and adventurers?

Not that I've heard of. :shrug: But I'm satisfied with M'aiq's explanation:

I geuss a crossbow is easier to use for the untrained than a regular bow, but if your good with a bow than you can shoot it just as powerful and even faster than a crossbow.

Eh, sorta. I've done archery for 5 years now, and I still have trouble with a crossbow.

Perhaps you've been Blighted.

Hmmm......Perhaps spears are un-used in Mirrowind because of the land area? It is a mountainous region, with many swamps and pools of water. Maybe they don't use spears merely because it's to difficult retrieve them, if thrown, attack with them, if climbing up a mountain, and other such things. Or perhaps they have advanced enough that they no longer need the spear, as you said it is the "most basic of weapons". The second would by Cyrodill's only real excuse, since there are many hilly areas, and even in the mountains there would be flat areas.

As for the crossbow, perhaps it is lost. Maybe Cyrodill lost touch with that weapon, as did Morrowind. Though it's hard to believe that a place filled to the brim with Dwemer remains has not one crossbow....or maybe there was. Maybe it an unrecognized weapon that an adventurer stumbled upon, then sent back to the mainland, or to a Dwemer Reshearcher, to discover what it is and how it works. And our charactor starts off just a few weeks after this was found, meaning it wasn't in mass production- nor any production- yet.

These are just Theories, so I'm not saying there 100% correct. Oh, and by the way, I'm new to the Lore section of the forums. I've read over many things, but not quite a master at the lore.

Im my opinion it's purely a matter of game mechanics - especially conccerning the spears which have remained in use even after having been replaced with pikes, hambers and other hafted weapons. Boar spears were used even after firerarms became common (having a weapon jam while facing an irate boar isn't fun).

I'm sure the game engine could have handled it with a little tweaking (in fact, there's an OB mod (with OBSE) that does just that). The real problem lies with the developer's choices. Maybe they don't read historical military textbooks enough to realize how integral and varied polearms have been in armed combat. There are as many varieties for polearms as there are for swords.

Cyrodiil isn't medieval. If you give a time, you must also give a place, and that's impossible as Cyrodiil is so diverse and is, obviously, complete fantasy.

I'm not saying it IS medieval, but it is loosely based off it, and if they're gonna haves swords and bows and axes.... Plus the fact that they had them in Morrowind...

The emperor has a giant fear of spears and crossbows, and banned them from Cyrodiil. They're allowed in MW, because they can still make their own laws, and are only part of the empire by name mostly

Spears are the weapons to use against mounted opponents: Oblivion has no fighting from horseback.

Crossbows are slow to reload and would typically be used from fortified positions like city walls, where the archer is not vulnerable during reload: Base Oblivion does not have that kind of fighting either.

It's all a consequence of their areas of excellence being removed. The decision to fight on foot and in the field only, means you only get/need the weapons for doing that.

There is no lore explanation for the absence of spears and crossbows in Oblivion. It was a development decision by the Devs to not put them in the game, and nothing more. Lorically speaking, both types of weapons are still in use in Cyrodiil.

Wrong. Spears and polearms date back to cavemen. They were used by the Romans, by the Ancient Greeks, by Egyptians - well before the Middle Ages.


No, polearms are deadly against unmounted units as well. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spear



Additionally, crossbows - at least, a mechanized crossbow-shaped and operated device -dates back the Romans and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballista.

Good point. Just because we don't see them, doesn't mean they're not there. Though, Morrowind and Oblivion are RPG's, so I suppose why you don't see them (or if they're even there) is one of the many blanks to be filled....

Because then the name of this thread and countless others would be "Why can't I use the spears and crossbows in Oblivion?" If they put the weapons into the game but the player still couldn't use them, then they would essentially become another "junk" item, and the game already has more than enough of those.

My guy on Morrowind has lvl 200 spear. Through enchantments and whatnot.

I miss htem.... :violin:

No.

Boring answer, but there it is.

Game mechanics, simple as that.

Same reason Cyrodill is only 16 miles squared and you can walk from one end of the province to the other in a matter of hours (minutes?) rather than weeks (months?) it SHOULD take you.

Game mechanics are not lore. There -are- spears in Cyrodiil (see a few skulls on pikes), but no one can wield 'em.

Crossbows, well... not like there was a reason to use them in Morrowind anyway.

I don't think it is because of lore, but I really wish they didn't remove them.
Hopefully they'll bring them back in the next TES...

The only way I'd see crossbows as having a "reason" to use would be in a system like Mount&Blade. They don't just do more damage, they have near perfect accuracy every time. In Oblivion, bows also have near perfect accuracy every time regardless of skill level...so it wouldn't even make sense for a Marksman novice to use a crossbow. There's no way to really miss based on skill level...

As for spears...well...who knows. They cut things left and right from Morrowind to Oblivion, "streamlining" what they could...so it really just makes sense to remove a weapon that, in popular opinion, wasn't used much.

Indeed. Just like other features such as Mages Guild teleportation, Mark and Recall, Levitation, mounted combat and other features. Oblivion's Cyrodiil is not the representation of Tamriel's "real" Cyrodiil.

well about player useable spears i belief there non incyrodiil but about spears in regulair try out the place were the wiz tower is without having the mod

This is because to be a military archer required almost a lifetime of training. These archers were trained from an early age to shoot powerful bows -with draw weights as high as 200 pounds. These men had deformed skeletons from their overdeveloped shoulder muscles because of this. The advantage of the crossbow was that anybody can use it, it does not require the muscle development of a heavy war bow. This kind of seems like the kind of thing the dwemer would like.

In modern times, a 70 pound bow is a heavy bow and requires a good deal of conditioning to fire. There are very few people who can fire 100 pounds and maybe only 1 or two who can reach up to 150. In medieval times in our world the archers were often times a class of specially trained warriors who were of tremendous value to their armies. An English longbowman firing a 200 pound bow could easily out shoot an untrained archer shooting 60 or 70 pounds or even 100. Think of the fierce mongols, who fired short, fast bows from horseback, some with a draw weight of around 195 pounds. They were unstoppable.

I would say archery in Tamriel is not that well developed, because anybody can fire any bow. It is not even possible for you or me to pick up and fire a 100 pound bow without considerable training. Archery in Tamriel seems to be more of a thing for hunters, who happen to use their bows for fighting on occasion. If some culture were to develop stronger archery, then they would e unstoppable for a while (because Tamriel has apparently never seen this before) An arrow fired by a 200 pound bow can do much more damage to your body than a bullet, think about that.

Yeah, if you are good with a bow you can shoot it faster and further than a longbow -the range of a bow is directly related to its draw weight, medieval English archers could shoot up to 500 yards with their powerful longbows. A medieval Icelandic law book established the distance measurement ?rdrag (bowshot) about 480m