The reason I like spears is because they add some variance in combat. I mean, axes are basically "swords with bledding damage added", and blunt weapons are basically "swords with armor piercing added". If the swing of an axe is different from the swing of a sword is different from the swing of a hammer is different from the swing of a mace, that's more important than having spears. Especially if every weapon of the same type didn't feel the same (ie: variance in swing speed and weapon length).

I'm not worried; mod tools to the rescue.

Hello and welcome.
I will have to disagree with you about dual wielding though. It can be effective and there have been whole disciplines utilizing dual wielding especially with smaller weapons, and there have been known fighters dualweilding. Dual weilding and spears aren't mutually exclusive anyway so there's no point in complaining about the inclusion of one since it makes no difference on the inclusion of the other. More options are good.

I know its just i dont understand why dual wielding is put in, yet they had spears in morrowind which was foggy and dark. Skyrim is a tundra, thats true but some places that were very cold (mongolia) used spears quite a bit. Maybe bethesda is going to put them in in an expansion pack.

Just throwing in my 2 cents.

I loved spears in Morrowind, but their absence in Oblivion was hardly game breaking for me.


Or even noticeable for that matter.

because that worked so well with Oblivion

although I did actually figure out how to do it, I just never implemented it

For most people its not a big deal, but i like weapons that require agility and finesse. If theres a small guy with a short sword that can move really fast and manages to kill a big guy with a twohanded sword or axe, i'd pay good money to see him die.

I do too. In real life I`m quite handy with a pointy stick.


But in TES I roll a battlemage, so magic and swords is all I need.



Now if only they'd confirm spell making has made it into the final product.

I have to stop you right there. Spears are the best weapon for fighting any animal, period. A bow is fine for deer, but anything larger and meaner (bears, wolves, boars, wild cattle, mammoths) requires you to have have something long and sharp in order to make a killing blow while staying away from harm.

Some animals, like mammoths, can not feasibly be killed by any weapons other than throwing spears. I'd like to see how they manage to make fighting them at all realistic or even fun. As soon as you got close enough to stab with a sword or swing with an axe, you'd be stomped to death, or gored on the end of a 8 foot tusk.

Got to agree, the spear is the perfect weapon for hunting. You can add dragons to that list to. Come on if you had to fight a dragon would you grab a sword or spear?

I liked spears from an RPing perspective rather than their effectiveness in combat. That said against big beasties spears are a natural choice since you wouldn't want to get that close. I'm definitely holding out for some sort of polearm tho and that would make me happy as a clam if they had those.

perhaps spears would make an appearance as a ranged weapon in the form of throwing spears/javelins? That would be waaaaay more awesome! and presumably not too hard to include as marksmanship mechanics are already there they'd just need some animations. (the bit from LotR return of the king springs to mind whn eomer kills a Mumakil rider with a throwing spear.)

The Lance of Longinus, eh?

Thats nice best way to fix something it cut it out?
How about make it balanced?
Spears fear of shields and claymores
So we can block attack with shield or strike with claymore and damage spear when enemy try parry.
Spears moderately fast (slower then short swords) have long reach and awesome pierce strike but slashing attack is not potent like blade has, they are lighter then two handed swords and hammers they can be cost less then swords, and less durable.
Why need cut them out? Fix them or let modders to fix them.

If there actually were other polearms, that would be fine. However, we have no confirmation for that whatsoever. :shrug:

The problem I have with missing spears is not that I like spears that much, but because this hugeley decreases the amount of combat styles. Swords, blunts and axes are all basically the same, close range, hack and slay type weapons for strong characters (if anything, I'd think that blunts and axes are superfluous). The only other melee option are daggers, which have a more nimble and stealthy approach. This leaves you with either a warrior type or a stealthy thief.
Adding a mid-range weapon like spears or other polearms would increase the amount of melee combat styles by 50% (gotta love statistics)!

That's also the reason why I'd like to see throwing weapons, knuckle dusters, crossbows, and so on. A greater variety in weapon types and combat styles allows for a more immersive roleplay experience and exciting and challenging enemies. What's not to like?

Getting tired of the "modders to the rescue" mentality, Modders shouldnt need to fix the game, essentially Modding should be about want not need in game, any shortcomings in the game should be addressed by the DEVS, this is especially important to Console users (I've played all my TES by PC and will Skyrim) who are getting the shortstick when things like psychic Guards still exist in Oblivions console version and unmodded games. its the gamers that need toget Beth to address these faults not wait for Modders to do the work.

I love modding, I adore it, its in my sig for crying out loud, but its shouldnt be a need for a game I didn't develop its a hobby, a good way to sharpen your teeth and maybe forge good values on how you address those who download your mod and give bug reports etc etc, I've seen more dedicated modders immediately fix crippling or annoying issues in their mods but a Dev company can't?

Get the Devs onto more responsibility, they are getting paid.

I am surprised due to the Scandinavian influences in Skyrim that spears would NOT be returning. Odin and Gungnir anyone? I personally don't like using spears as a weapon from a stylistic stand point but see no better place to re-add them than in Skyrim.

One big reason spears probably wont be added is the way they are utilized. The heads tend to be more like the end of a sword, or somewhat similar to a broad head arrow. They are fine for slicing with a swing, and extremely effective for stabbing, the shaft is good for hitting, but each one has its own ability, and they would need to add multiple damage variables for the spear (like in morrowind) and add restrictions on their usable range, which would have to apply a check script to the weapon. And we ALL know scripts are difficult things, they are prone to freezing, bugs, and a major resource hog.

Now, a spear is definitely the best weapon for large creatures most notably for its length. You can cause deep wounds, often using the creatures weight and momentum against them, and the most powerful aspect of a spear (stabbing) would be restricted at close range, but its difficult to put in a restriction like that without ruining the stability of the weapon. To make it work with the current system, it would need a base damage, and the other forms of attack would have to have some form of control with them (while applying some sort of multiplier) for the alternate attack styles. The multiplier would be prone to bugs, being the change in attack would more likely be scripted. The only other way i could think of is, have it set to right hand as primary, and make that a sweep/bash and remove the ability to defend to make room for stabbing, that might add room for the extended range, meaning you can do just fine if you keep them at a distance. That is still somewhat unrealistic as more adept spear users would often put some sort of metal plating to protect the shaft (which was strong, but still the weak point of the weapon) and could effectively use it as a defense, still leaving room to hit them with it.

As for the dual wielding someone mentioned earlier, it was more common in fencing (where it was very effective) and Feudal Japan, where a main sword and a wakizashi (side sword, later became known as the shorter sword) and could be effectively used at the same time. During the medieval era it was generally uncommon to find foot soldiers with sword in general, they were expensive to produce compared to the cheaper and simpler mace, and axe which made use of a wooden shaft and an inexpensive means of production. It wasn't unheard of in Europe to use 2 weapons at once, but it took a large amount of practice, often much more than the general soldier got (who were often peasants under the command of the presiding noble or the church)
One reason for the lack of dual wielding was the weight, the average longsword weight out to 3.1-ish lbs while while a claymore could weigh 4.9-6.3lbs. Using both swords at the same time added out to the weight of a heavy claymore, with less support and less control. It was more popular with an offset, using a smaller weapon on your non-dominant side.
Aside from that, its very common in games, and we all know the Elder Scrolls don't follow our laws of physics. I dont know what feathers translate into, but 38 units for silver, 62 for daedric sounds extremely heavy.


I also hope that daedric equipment is much harder to get than in Oblivion. Maybe not quite as hard as Morrowind (1 full set) but make it more of a rarity. And change the leveling system so you don't see bandits in the best equipment..

The spear of bitter mercy for me good sir.

Also try boar hunting with a bow LAWL, if i was stuck in the wild i would bring a http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=boar+spear&cp=6&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=944&bih=991

Boar spear; screw a bow this thing can defend me against bears, boars WHATEVER.

Good post. You seem to have a lot of knowledge on the subject, and it's always nice one someone knows that average sword wasn't 12 pounds and claymores around 20. Although they might feel that way because of leverage.

Also, it's funny to think of Tamriels standards and measures using "feathers" as a unit, but that's really what it is. I think someone's best estimate was that it was like 4 pounds (500 encumbrance = about 150 pounds, which is quite a lot, but "realistic" for a strong person in-game) So I think swords and stuff were still heavier than their real world counterparts by about 2x, but eh, you can still carry 20 of them which I imagine most people would have trouble with.

Notice how quickly Todd said. "They're currently are not." (spears)

I believe this podcast just made spears happen in Skyrim.

Bethesda could easily just add spears to the game, because the polearm system is already in. All they have to do is create the models and program them into the game. It's just that they weren't planning on adding spears before, just other polearms.

Well tod didn't say there wouldn't be polearms.
I could be wrong but if you think of it this way,you still may be able to use weapons like a spear.
if polearms are in ( which i think they will be in some form ) you could look at it like this.
There are many polearms that do the same thing as spears and more.
Halberd - A pike fitted with an axe head. This weapon had a broad, short axe blade on a 6 foot pole with a spear point at the top with a back spike

Pike - This weapon consisted of a sharp spike blade mounted on a wooden shaft, or pole - referred to as a pikestaff

Poleaxe - This weapon consisted of a broad, short axe blade mounted on a wooden shaft, or pole, which was between 4 and 5 feet long

The name of this weapon is derived from the word 'diquexe' from old English word "head axe" - they were originally axes mounted on poles

Names of other types of poleaxe - Polearm - Polehammer - Bec de Corbin - Bec de Faucon - Hache

A Bec de Corbin was a type of polehammer which used in the 1400's

A Bec de Faucon was a polearm with a large hammer head instead of an axe which also featured a spike or curved fluke. The length was between five and seven feet long

The hache bore an edged, axe shaped cutting blade on the front side with a small hammer head or curved spike on the back. The hache also featured a long rectangular or diamond cross-sectioned spike at the top of the shaft.

Ok to me,it's obvious that we are going to have thrusting attacks/animations in skyrim,with either,claymores,swords,whatever.
So if polearms are in ( and there are many more than i've shown above ) you'll be able to use them like spears only better,if that makes sense.
So to me it's not all doom and gloom....remember "not spear in the classical sense" NOT "there is no polearms.
But if you look at it like i've said ( but i could be wrong ) you spear lovers have nothing to worry about.
Anyway,i can play without spears,it would be nice,but i ain't that bothered.
But for those of you are a little down because of what was said in the podcast,i've give you a different way of looking at it.
Hope this gives you some hope back about spear type weapons.
Like i said i could be wrong,but it's something to consider.

Where did they say polearms are in?

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy297/b_harrison/misc/artofskyrim_008_elvenfemhalberd.jpg

http://i801.photobucket.com/albums/yy297/b_harrison/misc/artofskyrim_005_executioner.jpg

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/6535/meeting2.png

Hard to say if we will have thrusting attacks, the closest thing to a thrust in oblivion was the animation for staves, thrusting melee attacks were additions from most commonly, deadly reflex. Stabbing was a VERY big part of swordplay, but like oblivion, we may have to swing away like we are using a whiffle bat to kill anything. I prefer the deadly combat mods because it lets me spend more time dancing around them and doing quick, lethal attacks instead of hiding behind a shield while my enemy swings away, never learning of a better way to attack.

And todd said we wont have spears in the traditional sense. We could be working with something more like a Naginata or a Glaive that they modified in game to be used with a single hand or maybe a javelin. The concept art shows them working with long axes and halberds, but its hard to say anything yet. They are still working on an effective way to do a lot of things. Horses aren't guaranteed because the team didn't like the jeep-like feeling it gave them when riding around. Werewolves, as it stands, are a very serious option, but may not make it in the vanilla game and might be a DLC. (Bloodmoon 2 anyone?)


@Keltic Viking Glad to see someone else who knows a bit about weapons. The density of metal and the general size of the weapon makes the massive weights impossible. Now days you may find a display weapon using much heavier alloys and decorative materials boosting the weight significantly, but nothing like we are shown. What I REALLY want to know about is the staff. Is it still a useless shake-it stick or can I bust someone over the head with it? Really, it would be nice to use my weapon for long range, then turn around and slap them around with it.
Im somewhat glad they are removing the blunt and blade categories and instead replacing them with one-handed and two-handed. They are completely different styles and using one should NOT make you better with another. Some of the general rules for one-handed weapons apply to both blades and blunts, though there is a grip technique for weapons like a mace that let you hit without breaking your wrist.

The last perk for blade in oblivion was a thrust move,with a chance of paralyzing the enemy...you can't say that wasn't a thrust.
Plus they have reworked combat and made it more intense,with much better animation.
I'm also interested about the staff too,it should be a combat weapon, aswell as it firing magic.