No spears? That svcks. It's an ancient weapon, and if it wasn't good at killing things, people wouldn't have been using them for thousands and thousands of years. It's unfortunate the developers weren't creative enough to capitalize on the unique potential of spears and spear-like weapons.

EDIT: [snide]or Conan didn't have any spears, so Todd doesn't think his The Elder Conan Scrolls should have spears either[/snide]

Really, I'm not surprised. Hopefully modders can put them back in, just like they did with TESIV.

They're not "just weapons", they have a purpose. A short sword is for close range and fast strikes, a long sword is for a farther reach at a slightly slower speed. An axe is for short range and slow attacks, but strong damage. A claymore is long range and somewhat slow, but strong damage and no dedicated shield (or magic).

Yes, exactly. Bethesda thinks spears aren't good at killing things. They sure can't hide anything from you.

Yep, that's the impression I get from the podcast as well.

By the way, while I did cared for spears, admittedly it really was unbalanced in Morrowind. My mage-type characters always had them handy :celebration:

They never said that spears aren't good at killing things...

If you really want to have every weapon that is good at killing things, expect this game to be out in 2013...

Sorry.Dark humor.

So you're saying spears don't have a purpose?

If so, then please brush up on some basic weapon history.

Spears aren't creative at all. They are crude, they actually have less lethal potential than many other weapons. Weapons rely on doing as much damage as possible in a strike. Tearing and slicing large swathes make for the deadliest potential. A smaller singular hole is less effective. I can't believe you are suggesting that spears not being in the game makes them uncreative when they have polearms. Polearms are much more effective weapons with the same basic mechanic and frankly are far more interesting than a pole with a pointy end....

Why are you telling me? Tell that to Alsegagadisease

No, I'm saying that they need to have a unique purpose, not handled well enough by other available weapons, to be a reasonable addition into the game.

In that case, why make melee combat anything like our own? Let's make them use war salami instead of steel weapons, have wars decided by one on one bouts instead of armies, the toes as the most venerable points on a soldier and death cause a meiosis in the person where they split into their good and evil halves. RPG? Could be. Fantasy? Yes. Low fantasy feel (that Skyrim is quoted as going for)? No.

For no polearms or spears to be in this world, it would suggest a land where blacksmiths and metal deposits are common and of high quality so that all people could have a nice blade. That's OK. It would suggest that there was not much cavalry ever used in any of their wars? I'd have to read up on some of the lore to check that. Maybe there were always plenty of mages to somehow mess with the cavalry horses from a distance so that their advantage would be lost... It would also suggest that foot-soldiers care little for keeping enemies that want to kill them further away as they were trying to kill them too. Kudos to their bravery.

Spears/polearms make sense in the ES world for the same reason they do in our world, much like how the other weapons make sense for the reasons we used them. If it was explained why spears shouldn't be in the world by addressing the above, I'd accept that too.



Edit: I can't spell vulnerable, and my spell check gets confused.

Actually, every single modern army uses spears to this day. Every. Single. One. Of them. The version we use today is typically called a "bayonet", and has quite some uses besides killing people.

Actually, deep holes ARE more deadly, because a slice can be stitched closed. You can't just stitch a hole closed because the deeper part, the one you're bleeding to death from, will still be open. It causes internal and external damage. A slice from a blade, if it doesn't break the fat under your skin, doesn't do enough damage. A good doctor can stitch all of that closed. A stab wound is just like a gunshot wound. You can't just treat what you can see on the outside, because there's a whole train wreck of damage on the inside.

There is a reason that stabbing with blades and knives is far more deadly. Piercing a liver, the intestines, the stomach, or just about any other organ will cause some very bad damage that, especially in earlier times of man when our medical prowess wasn't nearly as good as it is now, were essentially not repairable.

Thought it would include his quote as well, but apparently, it doesn't on this forum^^

Now, speaking as a fan of spears in Morrowind I can say that I do love the aesthetics of spears. I like the look of my Argonian character carrying them around. However, with that said, they are fairly boring to actually use. Look at every other weapon and you have with options for thrust, cut, stab, etc. While you can do this with spears (even in Morrowind) the fact is the best attack is almost always a trust or stab straight forward.

Real spear example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZt9vGDC__I&feature=related

I would assume this is one of the main reasons for Beth's choice to drop them, besides technical reasons like animations. Now with that said, halberds (and the variations) are great. You gain the distance of attacks, plus you're able to stab and slice with the side blades.

Real halberd example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmNTKy8LJiY

With the direction they are heading with combat (more interactive, proactive) they would make more sense then a traditional spear for the play style they seem to be aiming for with physical weapons. This is probably what we'll end up with polearm combat if it's included, the concept art I have seen seems to confirm this.

I love how people always exaggerate examples to extremes that aren't logical at all. Also, spears are boring but we are getting polearms and they are far better than a pole with a pointy end like I explained above. Spears were OP in Morrowind because you could poke people and keep them staggered at a distance and a direct attack like that constantly doesn't make for good gameplay. With polearms, they are basically the same weapon but look better and don't keep people at a distance with no chance at counter attack because polearms are swung. I don't see why anyone would want a spear over a polearm, because polearms are what we have in Skyrim.

I said "include what you WANT to have in the game"... Bethesda WANTS to have steel weapons, they WANT to have wars decided by armies, they don't WANT to have the toes as the most vulnerable point - and to the point, they apparently don't WANT to have spears in the game for some reason...
Why do everyone have to exaggerate so unbelievable much? Please, for the love of god, Think before you type...


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By the way guys, where is it confirmed that we will have polearms?

It's called 'making a point' after it's claimed that a factor being different from real life is the 'STRONGEST argument possible'.

Could you come up with an argument that are stronger?

Some basic facts:

1. All the things you can do with a spear, you can do with a polearm, and the other way around. Polearms just have more weight and a larger cutting edge behind them (most spears have a cutting edge too, though!).

2. Consequently, with polearms it makes more sense to swing them - with spears, it's very situational, and not done usually unless to keep someone at a distance.

3. On the other hand, spear are fast, Very, very fast. Combine it with their reach, and you have quite a deadly combination, though it requires a skilled fighter with place to maneuvre to exploit fully.

4. Consequently, a spear fight is more dynamic, with more moving around and trying to get an edge, than a polearm fight - not the other way around.

5. Spears make better tools as well. Ever tried spear fishing with a polearm?

1: The can do what they 'WANT', it'd just be nice if there were logical reasons 'WHY'. Maybe it'll be explained in game by M'aiq again.
2: The exaggeration was a counter of the statement that having a factor in an RPG that's different from anything in our history is the 'STRONGEST' reason to put it in, which means the stranger a thing is, the stronger the reason to put it in.
3: Oh so I don't think?... I'm sorry to have an opinion... I'll get back to my dayjob/physics.

Your comparing a deep wound from a spear to a shallow wound from a sword. Spears can have shallow wounds as well. A wound from a sword is more dangerous from a gunshot or spear. Swords, if you slash, cause massive damage across a large swath of your body damaging a large amount of capillaries and veins resulting in far greater and faster blood loss than as spear wound. If your stabbing with a sword, it has the same effect as a spear. There is a reason that many predator animals have tearing mandibles and teeth, because tearing and shredding cause much more damage and thus have a far great chance of killing something quicker and more reliably. Thus is why most predatory animals known haven't evolved horns, because if spears were a more effective killing tool then they would've evolved horns, which horns are typically for defense in the animal kingdom.

Read one of my last posts i.e. Spears/PoleArms vs Cavalry

Would be cool if M'aiq explained it (Well, his grandson or something perhaps?)

I didn't mean you don't think at all - just that many people don't think before they post something (Just look at this thread, which proves that^^) - sorry about that - I can understand your reasoning as well though, spears would be a nice addition. I'm just trying to stay positive to the lack of spears^^

How exactly would spears have been implemented with this new realistic approach to combat without being overpowered? If you're fighting with a guy who has a shorter weapon, what's to stop you from just keeping him at a distance the entire fight and poking holes in him? What other attacks besides poking holes in someone would there even be? Sounds a little boring to me.

Bethesda is not anti-spear, they just have not found a way to realistically put them a game that doesn't have static combat like Morrowind.