Regarding the no level cap argument: by the time I'm done with my build's perks and start using my level ups for attributes, it'll be time to retire the character. Last thing I want is to create a godling; I want my different characters to be as different from one another as possible.

That is the funny thing about the whole min-max argument in this thread.

The only time bobbleheads have affected min-maxing in the Fallout Universe is in Fallout 3. and if you want to min-max in Fallout 3, collecting bobbleheads is an end-game activity. You would want to avoid bobbleheads until you get the level 50 "Almost Perfect" perk.

In Fallout 4, the only way bobbleheads would affect min-maxing (assuming they do give stat increases) is it will take you seven less levels to max your stats than if you didn't collect them.

I never made a character that depended on me getting a Bobblehead. I don't even go out looking them so the only two I ever get in the one in Vault 101 and Rivet City.

Even when I know exactly where the things I want are, I only travel there if it's reasonable for my character to do so. In Fallout 3, my favorite early game weapon is Protectron's Gaze. Instead of making a beeline for The Mechanist, I help people out around Megaton, and after I finish with the vampires in Arefu, I head out from there to Canterbury Commons because my character has been informed that it's a trading hub and he wants to gear up for an expedition into DC to find James. On the way, I pick up Dogmeat.

Yeah, I don't particularly care. If it bothers me so much, I''ll just alter the stats with the console. Probably not on the first character, I'll play that one by the book to see how the game works as Bethesda intended it. But I'm not going to sit and powerlevel just to get to the point where the characters can do the things they are supposed to.

I wonder if bobbleheads can actually add +1 to a stat that is already at 10? We know from the endurance perk Solar Powered that we can at the very least boost stats over 10... Wonder if we can permanently add to them as well? We obviously don't know if implants are in the game either but that could be another possibility of a permanent stat increase over 10.

No if you at 10 you stay at 10.

Just because you find one doesn't mean you need to pick it up.

Yeah, it's still an rpg.. no matter how you play. There's still going to be a "chance to hit %" and a "base/bonus damage %" The obvious difference in an rpg with shooting mechanics is that we the player have the ability to compensate for character flaws.. How much that will make a difference will probably come from individual players. Must be a dreadful thing to have to try to balance. You want to give the player the sense of freedom but at the same time, they are playing a character that is supposed to be quite weak and terrible at the beginning of the game. This is why Skyrim had so many aiming mods for archery. It's like people fail to understand that they are supposed to be really crappy with a bow in the beginning. They then make a mod to compensate for the "crappy aiming mechanics" and end up creating nothing but a cheat mod. Skyrim Archery is fantastic and op.. once you level it up all the way.

So only Solar Powered, Night person and chems can boost stats over 10... That works too.

Have you got a source for that? As Vyvexthorne said, there is evidence of stats being able to go above 10. We can't take the rules of past Fallouts for granted.

This. They aren't forcing you to do anything.

The nice thing is that not having max intelligence won't really hurt your character in the long run. In F3 the effects were palpable. Not getting that bobblehead directly translated to fewer skill points. My main concern now is that this will translate over to endurance. If so, I'll have to spec for endurance so that I don't lose out on health.

Umm... none of that matters for FO4 because there is no level cap. There is no reason to worry about getting bobbleheads for points and no one will make a build based of such a practice not even metagamers. Actually, the same thing applies in FO3 and FONV because there were more than enough points to max skills anyway... maybe not SPECIAL but certainly skills (and SPECIAL too if you took Almost Perfect, at least for FO3).

Regardless, no one is FORCING anyone to do anything, least of all BGS, at least not as far as character builds. Archetypes like sociopaths do not necessarily have low Charisma, for example - such people may be quite charming, but still have their issues. No one is forcing anyone to go specific places or even to look at any guide or forum thread. The only thing BGS forces (and has false marketing about) is character aesthetics because they always claim "be anyone you want and do anything you want" but BGS games never have attractive character aesthetics (thus the first mods are always various character, body, face, and hair mods, as well as basic outfits that any character caring about fashion at all would wear while avoiding the vanilla offerings like the plague).

Im nl going to look up locations, but not fo bobblehead hunting per say. Im just going to play the game narurallt and if I go in a building without finding a bobblehead and Im about to leave Ill know I need to take a sixond look around to find it.

If a player feels like he has to collect stuff in the game... it is in no way, shape, form, or measure on the developer.

But there hasn't been a chance to hit in any BGS game starting with Oblivion. There is accuracy in FO3, but that only affects the cone of fire, not a chance to hit (ie. if a target is close enough to completely envelop the cone of fire, the shot will always hit).

In FO4 the perception description mentions accuracy with VATS; if it affected weapon accuracy in all cases it would say so, I should think.

I already talked about both those points. Not everyone is willing to start revisiting respawned areas just to level up further. By the time we've seen most of the content, it's time to start over with a new character.

As for the other point, let me just walk you through what will happen to a lot of folks on monday:

You create a character with a SPECIAL spread that will enable you to buy all the perks you need to fulfill a certain idea. You start finding bobbleheads, and realize that all those extra points aren't going into giving you access to any perks you want. You then realize that if you had chosen your spread with -1 on every attribute, you could have massively boosted another attribute that you had ignored, giving you access to a ton more useful perks, and you'd then have a more capable character. You'll start getting that sinking "have I just gimped my character?" feeling.

Or, you could choose the spread with the bobbleheads in mind, but then while playing the game you'll start missing the perks that you had planned for your character because you have not found the relevant bobbleheads. Your character will feel incomplete. It could be a long time before you find the strength bobblehead, for example, so you could buy the Armorer perk.

Both are rather unfortunate scenarios. Would it not then be preferrable to redesign the bobbleheads?

Plan your build without bobble heads in mind. If/when you find one, hooray, free bonus. If you don't care about that stat, so what? You'll get some benefit from the stat increase even if you don't want any of the new perks you can now reach. Getting some free stat boosts doesn't take anything away from you.

Nobody is forcing you to min/max, and given that you can increase any stat using perk points, it just seems silly to complain that you have to plan your game around bobble head collecting. You don't.

Spolier...so dont read anymore, ignore my comment, burn your eyes (dont do that) .....Bobble heads work different this time around, if am correct they dont raise your special, they instead give perks.

I just realized in my planned build my lack of attention to endurance has left me with a starting hp of 80....I am le sad now.

The seven SPECIAL ones give +1 to the relevant stat. The ones named after skills (Barter, for instance) now give unique perks.

wow people really will complain about anything. Bobbleheads, looking at guides. I'm very confused. Bobbleheads are a great and fun idea, and the best part.....they are completely optional. I am baffled that there is actually a thread with people complaining about this stuff. "people deserve to have their thumbs broken for looking where a bobblehead is". I dont know if this is more sad, or funny. Lol. Just have fun how you want and let people play the game how they want.

I've heard that having a SPECIAL at 10 and getting a bobblehead will result in a stat of 10(+1), rather than 11. In other words, it still affects your SPECIAL, but it treats it almost like an armor effect than a hard stat. Hope that makes sense. Again though, that's only what I've heard.

To be honest, if a +1 auto on stat is that detrimental for your build, DO NOT GRAB IT! Geez, think outside of the box sometimes.

I guess I attribute gun sway as a the real time version of a chance to hit%. There may not be actual numbers for a chance to hit% but there's definitely a number that controls gun sway. Like I said, depending on your real world skill you can still compensate for it.

Again, if you could provide the source for this, I would appreciate it. It's the first time I'm hearing about gun sway (which was in NV but not in FO3). It would be great if perception affected the cone of fire (which would be weapon spread + character accuracy) and agility affected the gun sway, but seeing as there are no perks that modify such parameters and the attribute descriptions don't mention them, I'm hesitant to believe this is the case.