If that's the case then Legendary dwellers and rare dwellers are pointless. Cmon now.

What do you mean by retroactive?

@Koopsta, you should elaborate so that people who don't know what you're talking about can gain an understanding.


@Muthodes, he means that Endurance directly affects the amount of health points your dwellers receive AS they level, including endurance on outfits that a dweller had equipped. Which means it's almost pointless, beyond rad resistance, to level up endurance on a level 50 dwrller, because the benefit of high endurance is lost.


It is best to place your level 1 dwellers in the endurance training room BEFORE you begin leveling them because the health point gain is NOT retroactive. This is not a theory, the code was backward engineered by the community -- and a lot of people are pissed off about it, especially in a game where people tend to dump more real world money on it per developer time spent than their actual desktop/console games.


Let's face it -- we are obsessed with time management, resource management, and population control games. To spend weeks, if not MONTHS slowly leveling up 200 dwellers to max SPECIAL and max level, only to find out their health is gimped is demoralizing.


We invested in the success of Bethesda (what was it, 15 million in the first week?) only to be given an unethical character development system. The only way to really recuperate the losses of a completely endurance screwed vault is to begin euthanizing your own cherished vault dwellers by the dozens or maybe even bring your population to just under the death claw threshold (59?) and begin the eugenics program.


So, yes, all those legendary dwellers are terrible, too, because they don't gain the maximum efficiency health pool that a super solider put through rigorous training from birth will have.


Maybe that's why death claws are wrecking your vault?


The difference is staggering, in fact: a vault dweller leveled to 50 BEFORE maximizing their endurance will usually have between 280 and ~300 health, depending on how much you trained endurance or if the dweller was wearing endurance gear as they leveled. Primarily because the Objectives encourage players to level really fast, the training room doesn't appear until a little later in the game, and we were left in the dark about how endurance functioned.


Health on a dweller who has trained to 10 endurance at level 1 and equipped a +7 endurance outfit will have ~654 health points depending on how much endurance they were born with.


You may notice some of your guys and gals die faster than others. This is why. Check Reddit for the math. I don't care to repost the link. I'm a bit frustrated at having wasted my time raising all my guys endurance.


But like I said, euthanize and start a eugenics program to save your vault from chaos. As Overseer you truly are a bastard -- we were given no other choice than to die or begin our own little Spartas......

Oh wow, yea I didn't know that. That is a terrible system.

It was $5.1M in the first few weeks but still it hasn't stopped going up since.

I really hate the training rooms to begin with and most features in the game are bugged or poorly crafted. I have this picture in mind of interns at Bethesda being given this project as sort of a "here, have fun in your play corner while the big boys work on FO4" and when they actually came up with this game that was clearly a money pit for any user the devs were more than happy to test it out on the world.

As long as people pay though Bethesda won't stop the game, they'll just make sparse updates to keep the addicts going.

I want this game to be to be updated with a better SPECIAL system, bug fixes (dweller hitboxes are godawful and cause many deaths that would otherwise not occur), and NEW CONTENT. I want Super Mutant invasions like PvZ. Maybe the Behemoth smashes your front door repeatedly letting in an endless stream of super mutants, so you have to kill the behemoth to stop the invasion. Could you imagine?!?!


The artistic development is FANTASTIC! I mean, I've always wanted to run my own vault. [censored], it could be amazing.


And if it becomes amazing, I will gladly spend my money. Do you hear me, Bethesda? I will buy new content, but not lunchboxes. Make this game actually fun.


Luckily I'm an RPer so most of the fun qualities of the game come from the yarns I spin in my head about family lineages, chosen ones, and the Nuka Cola Covert Operatives that have begun working out of my now mega corporation. We were once well meaning vault dwellers, now addicted to Nuka cola because that's all we eat/drink. Worse than talon company I'd say. They are sending spies in the form of crappy dwellers lured to my fort to DIE in the wastes.

Oh, and I am overseer Deadpool, in the form of poolcleaner breaking the intellectual property fourth wall. Nuka Cola!!!! Nuka Cola!!!!!!!! Come to my vault to drink and to die. And to get a haircut, our barbers are exceptional.

Why does no one post links to things anymore? Everyone just says "google it".

https://www.reddit.com/r/foshelter/comments/3ibkjj/endurance_affects_hp_only_during_leveling_not/

Because I'm on my phone in the bathroom. Why are people so lazy as to not use Google? lol

Yea I thought about the Special system. I honestly think it is as simple as using the GOAT exam on all new dwellers to assign a fixed amount of SPECIAL, plus adding optional traits and perks every several levels. That would be a huge improvement, though alone would just be tedious. They'd need to reduce the time you spend focusing on resource rooms and more time on exploring or adding cool features to your vault. They'd also need to remove training rooms and in the same stroke make SPECIAL retroactive so you can retake the GOAT if you get a 'retake card' from a lunchbox.

Could you imagine, now your dwellers are all different instead of all being maxed in each SPECIAL stat? You'd have the blue collar, red neck from the wasteland that don't know his elbow from his knee but he sure can move a lot of heavy equipment around, and fast too! And only luck can explain why he survived so long in the wasteland! (SPECIAL = 9,4,9,2,2,9,7 respectively). Or there is the Doc, guy with more brains than is good for him. Sometimes talks too much which gets him in trouble but he's agile enough to out run his enemies and being smart enough to see that a situation is getting out of control so to get a head start (SPECIAL = 4,8,3,4,10,7,6).

It would make the dwellers come more to life and would add depth to the game.

@Muthodes: Yeah, totally. I'd love to send my dwellers to their GOAT exam. Or send the rednecks to the Armory to build us some grenades and low grade weapons with a chance at making a rare item. Maybe training rooms are also production.

@poolcleaner: I was thinking about that actually. The training rooms could be repurposed for other uses like that. The perception room could be the new 'Workshop room' that has been floating around. You could get recipes from the wasteland to craft items in this room. Also the Charisma room can be repurposed as a 'Think Tank room' that high INT/CHA dwellers can think up new crafting recipes that may/may not be found in the wasteland while sipping beer to get the thinking juices flowing.

And the classroom could be repurposed into the GOAT examination room. You will send dwellers there for their GOAT.

Loads of ideas, it is just fun thinking them up! I did a massive (7500 word) post in the forums. It's on the first page right now titled 'Improvements to FOS (Forward looking to FOS 2)'. Feel free to check it out if you have time. Would really like to have some of your thoughts posted there as well on how to improve the game.

@Muthodes: I will check it out. I'm posting on gamefaqs under a different handle, but mostly I just ramble and criticize lol. (I also produce/provide support for games, as well.)

@poolcleaner: Oh yea! I used gamefaqs a lot growing up. Very useful site.

My thoughts in my post are an attempt to generate a cohesive gameplay experience with massive replay value. I noticed just now in another post that you commented about the vault incidents being more interactive. I honestly didn't put much thought into it in my post other than Final Fantasy XII gambits (renamed Vault Policies) which would help with some of the poor mechanics such as dwellers not being healed in time, now they'd auto heal when below a certain HP. The problem is it takes away interactivity, but the upside is it affords for new combat system ideas. My thoughts on the matter are null, as I'm having trouble seeing how to improve the combat play, but that would be worth discussing!

It's not a criticism of you, personally, just this forum as a whole. There's a lot of very nebulous "I saw X somewhere". If people just did a quick copy paste, we'd all be on the same page. Half the time my Google search doesn't find what people allude to.

I'm thinking if you tap on a room with an incident it switches to a top down or isometric view and goes into VATS.


The game is offline, so why not?


Im contradicting what I said earlier, but a tactical approach would be fun as hell if the difficulty was properly scaled to match.


Then ideas like grenades, inprovised traps, mines, etc would come into play. Tactics style. I mean, it worked on mobile for XCom and Final Fantasy Tactics, very very well. Why the hell not? John Carmack said in 2009 that he wanted to contribute to a Fallout mobile game, and he said he'd contribute even of he was busy. Wtf! Is he? We need him on this NOW.

Also, we completely kidnapped this thread lol -- and I'm ignoring fancy pants animated gif circa 1995 geocities.com guy right now rofl

That is simple and genius at the same time. So would it be like VATS from the rest of the FO universe where it'd be turn-based and when it's one of the dweller's turn you'd select an enemy to target and maybe select a body part? That would mesh well with my perk/trait idea, as some affect VATS and also having a set SPECIAL means Agility would be important for combat as well!

Technically it is still about SPECIAL... I mean, you can't fix one part of the game without trying to fix the rest of it, am I right?

Scope is uncertain on such a feature. Needs a rapid prototype to test feasibility of what you're invisioning. Maybe just a simple single body tap like grenades in fallout. The aim is still to remain simple first and foremost. Look at the complexities of PvZ, but also note the simplicity of the grid layout.


Maybe it's real time and you get a VATS chance similar to rushes with diminishing return and chance of critical failure.

That would make more sense, VATS would have to be real-time for it to stay fast paced. I think a side/overhead view idea is good also (just like XCOM, never played but watching the gameplay now). I think this would work for both general view and also combat views for the room. I don't know how hard though that would be for the devs to make.

But being able to select an attacker and a body part to target would be a step up. Like shooting the deathclaws in the hands would make their attack damage decrease a bunch, or shoot their legs to make them walk instead of leap/run.

It might need to be a separate game altogether tbh, but it's damn compelling.

What is; the new VATS system we are chatting about?

Oh I have an idea now! What if it was real time, but when you click on the room you would zoom in and the clipboard would open up on the dwellers in that room. You could then select a dweller and the window would then change to a window with the enemies. You would then select an enemy, then a VATS window would pull up and you would then tap a body part to highlight it and press ok. This way you could select the dwellers with the heavy weaponry, select the most threatening enemies, and then select the body part that would have the best chance to hit or crit.

So generally in FO1/FO2 if you aim for the eyes you would have -60% toHit, but would gain +40% crit chance if you have 10 luck, and only +18.8% (something like that) crit chance with 1 luck. That way a dweller with high perception for better toHit and high luck would be better suited to attack in VATS. Any dweller you don't assign a target to in VATS would just do non-targeted attacks to random enemies. Also agility could just work like in FO online where as you use AP it slowly regens over real time and would directly impact what weapons a dweller could use and how often they fire it.

Does this retroactive thing only effect the Endurance stat? Or should I be maxing out the SPECIAL stats on all dwellars before leveling them up at all?

Yes, and no. There is a difference between a Request for Change (feature request) and an Incident Report (bug report).

Typically, bugs reports will take priority IF enough information is given in the report for the development team to reproduce the bug. I have said this elsewhere, but a bug report that consists of nothing more than a statement like "the game keeps crashing" is pretty much useless. It tells the development team that something is wrong, but it doesn't give them enough to go on to start the bug hunt.

If you have a single developer working on a project. And if that developer has a bug report and a feature request sitting on their desk, they will look at the bug report first. If there is enough information in the bug report for them to recreate the bug and watch it in action, they will start work of fixing that bug and once the bug is fixed they will move on to the feature request. If the bug report is minimal and does not give them enough information to start the bug hunt, then the developer will use the bug report as toilet paper and start to work on the feature request. (It should be noted, that most, not all, of the bug reports I have seen on these forums are of toilet paper quality).

Without the proper information in a bug report, the best a developer can do is take a wild assed guess as to what is happening, code for that guess, cross their fingers for luck and ship a bug fix that may not fix anything.

As for the SPECIAL situation. This may be a bug. It may also be by design. That is to say, it may be intended to work the way it does. If it is a bug, the information presented in the linked article is complete enough for the developer to recreate it and fix it. If it is intended to work this way, chances are it will not be changed. Personally, I hope it is a bug. The reason I say that is that there are some aspects of Fallout Shelter that are suppose to mimic behavior in Fallout 4. This would be one of those aspects.