You can use the 50 cal without 8 strength and I believe you've been told that atleast 5 times on different threads.
And you are seriously forgetting drugs, an important feature in the upcoming game. Any lower stats, just pop a few pills. Rinse and repeat.

It's not that if you have more than 40 you'll be a God, it's that with too much more than 40 you'll have no weaknesses. You'll end up either a jack of all trades or a guy who is a little above average in 2 attributes and amazing in the remaining ones.

I don't know why you think you will need an 8 in Strength to use it. I'm assuming you're actually getting that from an interview and not just making an assumption, but what the interviewee is most likely referring to is the base strength to use the item without any penalties. Fallout 1 and 2 had something similar as did Van Buren before it's cancellation. All this means is that if you're not extremely strong you will lose some accuracy when shooting a gun while standing that was meant to be fired with a tripod.

The disagreement probably comes largely from the use of the term God Character. That isn't helped however when you make comments like "in Fallout 3 I took all 10 Intense Training Perks and collected all the bobbleheads and that still didn't max my SPECIAL out." Emphasis ought to be on the word still.

Still though, you make a point. With skillpoints being harder to come by it will be a lot more difficult to become a Master of All Trades. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing to you depends on whether you view that status as something to reach for or something to shun.

A Character with a 5 in Charisma and a Strength of 6 or 7 with everything else at 10 is still pretty much a Master of All Trades.



How do you view the 1-10 Ranking? Given that in Fallout 1 and 2 an Intelligence of 1 resulted in someone with near 0 communication skills and a 10 allowed you talk the boss character into suicide the idea of a scale of Profoundly Lacking to Profoundly Efficient or Godly seems pretty apt to me. Plus it's what the creators have basically said they are using.

i disagree, you're saying unless you have only 40 points for a special you won't have any weaknesses, i disagree, with 40 points as a special you won't have any strengths, you won't be able to have anything at 10 really not without negleting everything else. so i disagree with you. skills have more to do with being a god character.

He's making an assumption.

@West: Yes you will have strengths, seriously have you not been paying attention to any of the character builds people have been posting on this thread?

I agree with you that skills are quite important in developing a character. I think the primary difference between our two view points is that you see Sub 5-6-or 7 Attributes as neglected while I see them as a large part of the character.

I read somewhere or other, I read too damn much, about an idea for Van Buren they had at one point to allow for something similar to the Trait system but a bit more free. I think it came from Dungeons and Dragons, the idea was to allow the player to pick a Positive Trait (like Grace Under Fire, Cult of Personality, etc etc) which would have a certain + value but that + value would have to be balanced out with a Negative Trait (Afraid of the Dark, Twitchy, etc etc). That's essentially how I feel about Attributes. Time spent (character wise) developing one attribute leads to another attribute not being so developed.

Think of an absolute genius who isn't very good in social situations, or the party guy who everyone loves but who barely passed high school. Think of the post apocalyptic weight lifter who spent so much time developing his Strength and Endurance that he sacrificed some Agility, or the Agile ninja type character who has avoided putting on much muscle to avoid losing flexibility. Or with one skill high think of the guy who isn't all that great at much but he's just extremely lucky, the guy who gets through by convincing people to do what he says, the guy who muscles his way out of problems, or the guy who just has the determination (Endurance) to fight his way out of situations.

To me those are all more interesting then the guy who is just damn good at everything. The limitations add to the character's character. My lucky guy tends to be Irish so he's an alcoholic. My weight lifter often uses Buffout to increase his Strength or Mentats to hide his intellectual deficiencies. My ninja character is a damn ninja.

One thing that seems to be getting overlooked: high SPECIAL, in and of itself, does not make a character 'godly'; that comes from the 'skills and perks' side of character development. A level one character with 10s across the board is still going to have some pretty poor skills and no perks, and thus will not be nearly as effective as a perked-out L30 with multiple high or capped skills whose SPECIAL averages out to around 6 or 7. Nor does SPECIAL determine one's strengths and weaknesses; it only determines which skills happen to be slightly stronger at the start, and that is in no way an indication of what the finished 'product' will be like.

I am somewhat divided on this myself, since there is something to be said for both viewpoints. If I had to choose I would go with the limitations presented with the standard 40-point allotment, since that means each character will have a unique start and that adds replay value. At the same time, I know from far too many years of playing RPGs that the early levels are almost always a real pain, and the ability to have high stats from the start means one can 'hit the ground running', so to speak. The problem with the latter method, of course, is that it is far too tempting to make all of one's characters that way, and that's generally not a good thing.

i like having weaknesses, but not mostly all weaknesses, just like we had too many strengths in fallout 3 its also possible to have too few strengths, so it can go both ways, if you had a stat at 5 thats a weakness, thats not being a master a stat of 5, a master would be a stat of like 9 or 10 and you aren't gonna be able to have any of them at 10 unless you totally ignore every other stat leaving all those you left at 5 they are all weakness, a stat of 5 is a weakness, so lets say your SPECIAL looks like this
:cryvaultboy:
S-5 thats a weakness since you can't use a 50 cal.
P-6 kinda low perception still certainly not a master of perception at 6
E-5 thats just average endurance not a master there either
C-5 once again just average, prob a lot you won't be able to do with just a 5 charisma
I-9 my one strong area gee whiz
A-5 pretty low agility VATS won't be much fun
L-5 average luck, not too bad but it certainly isn't a high luck
:celebration:
now try to explain to me how this leaves you a master of anything ?
:spotted owl:

Last time: YOU CAN USE THE [censored] 50 CAL WITH LESS THAN 8 STRENGTH.
And 5's are not weaknesses, those are average, and having lower than 5 is not a problem leaving you with more points. 9 in intelligenge is definately a waste and is most definately not your strong area.
You've been told all of this before, I think you should learn to pay attention.

Random observation - you seem really hyped about that .50 cal rifle. :laugh:

(Odds are, if it behaves like the .308 sniper rifles in FO3, I won't use it. Didn't like those things. But, hopefully, there'll be a .50 cal Desert Eagle for me to use the ammo in. Or, that'll be a good source of caps, selling the ammo. Whee!)

last time i checked intelligence determines skill points and unless you have a high intelligence you ain't gonna have very high skills, so thats hardly a waste, it wasn't in fallout 3 thats for sure. but a 5 is a weakness, your 50 cal will be wobbling all over the place and with a 5 strength you prob won't be able to get the toughness perk with a 5 endurance so that will be a weakness, a 5 is a weakness. and actually if i only have 40 points to distribute this will prob be my SPECIAL
S-5
P-7
E-5
C-2
I-9
A-7
L-5
that ain't gonna leave me being a master of anything

Apparently intelligence has a much lesser impact on your skill points now, so you raising it for that sole reason is pointless (pun unintended).
Also the fact that you want high intelligence just so you can have "moar skillp0intz" shows you aren't really playing this for the RPG aspect, you just want a powerful character like "mast3r cheef".

Edit: Poor example, stop trying a jack of all trades character, how about ninja or something like:
S - 4
P - 8
E - 7
C - 4
I - 5
A - 8
L - 4

Edit again: See? Evidence of strengths and weaknesses right there buddy ^

Once more you CAN use a 50 Cal with 5 Strength

Your primary criticism of all those sub 9 stats was that it doesn't make you a master

Quite clearly you wish to be a master of everything

You're right though Kiralyn, skills and especially perks play a large role in building a character.

Just for fun, here's my idea for a Duke Nukem build. Since Duke Nukem Forever is never coming out and The King loves him some Vegas.


Strength: 9
Perception: 7
Endurance: 8
Charisma: 4
Intelligence: 3
Agility: 4
Luck: 5

Done with 40 points. He'd tag Guns, Explosives, and Energy Weapons/Melee/Unarmed depending on what Energy Weapons and what Melee weapons come out.

My Reasoning:
High Strength to allow him to carry a bunch of weapons and be better at Melee/Unarmed. High Perception so he can snipe, though I might take that down. High Endurance so he can take lots of punishment. Slight hit to Charisma, might need to be greater, because he's rather annoying. Intelligence hopefully at the stupid person dialogue level. Agility is a bit low, could also be lower, to discourage VATS abuse. Luck is untouched

And best of all, he can use the 50 cal! Yay! I care so much about the 50 cal.

I tend to always try the extremes to see if the devs did anything FUN and interesting there.

My leviathan tech
S - 10
P - 4
E - 10
C - 1
I - 10
A - 1
L - 4


tagged energy weapons science and repair

BUT most times they screw up strength with power armor and blah blah blah and 10 endurance realy svckS so I wind up 7 str 7 end and 9 int and that plops too many points into perc or luck or keeps me from being painfully slow or uncharismatic...

Mind you they always screw up intel too. Does it ever realy matter if you have 7-10 intel at the start? in fo1 MAYBE but otherwise NOPE.

And THAT is the problem with special. Im mr science with 6-7 int and mr hulking brute with 6 str and mr sharpshooter with just 6 perc and and and and.

STARTING with 10 in any one stat has to realy matter same with starting with 1 in it. But thats about as likely as duke nukem forever...

So in that case maybe 40 stat points is too many.. not becauser it should be but because the devs always wimp out on the full 70 point range of special and realy just make it a 42 point range IF that.

:sadvaultboy:
sure i want high skills, they all don't have to be high but i want half of em at 100. i don't want most of my skills at 50 or 60 that ain't any fun

Being average in certain areas is not a weakness, it's just presenting that you're not capable of handling the hottest stuff in all areas and hence the reason for you to specialize in areas you wish. You're still perfectly capable of handling cool stuff, it's just up to you which direction you decide to go with your characters abilities.
By your logic, one could say everything below 9-10 is a weakness since there may well be that high stat reqs for something (like possibly the fatman, for one example) that one may want to use along with all other stuff. The stat requirements and limitations are there for a reason. For you to not get it all. And to keep the game interesting (in my opinion).


If you want toughness and .50 cal, you build a character that can have the perk and adequately use the rifle. It's not that hard.

Simple answer: Play the game more than once with a different build that way you'll experience everything. More than half at 100 is ALOT and shows your lack of RPG experience to put it simply :huh:


Yeah, how about use different weapons? What the hell is wrong with pistols, knives, etc? Would definately match a ninja character which I specified I was talking about.

Edit: Your point about "mostly all weaknesses", I'd rather it stayed that way than mostly all strengths. That would break the game and has nothing to do with roleplay.
An example: In real life, can you:
Pass all your exams with the highest grade
Have perfect eyesight and see for miles
Hike for hours and not eat or drink for extremely long periods of time
Make friends with anyone and everyone easily
Have an unusually high IQ
Do gymnastics so well you can do some crazy [censored] where you flip up walls etc.
Always win all the time

I think I've made my point, and each of the above coresponds to each area of SPECIAL.

Yea intelligence doesnt have nearly as much of an inpact in NV. I think you just want a 'god' character, and 40 points is just fine. A stat at like 1-4 is a weakness. 5-6 is average. 7-8 is rather good, and 9-10 is great. So having all your stats (except a few like Charisma) at 5-8 will be just fine. Maybe one at 9. However Charisma is supposed to be usefull in NV, so we will wait and see.

In my playthroughs at lvl 100, I have maybe 1-2 skills at 100, the rest at about 20-70 and its fine for me.

Alot of people are assuming intel has a much lesser impact on skill points.. BUT as they SAY they want stats to matter much more that would force intel to have a much larger effect outside of skill points. But what the heck would that mean?

I could see it being 5 skill per level plus .5 per stat point IF intel was doing a hell of alot of other things it wasnt doing in fo3. But what the heck does a brainiac DO other then be a know it all? Make realy cool inventions maybe? Mod stuff way beyond what mear normals can even imagine? Modify drugs and make new superdrugs like melvin in fo2? Invent wondermeat? Figure out how to reprogram robots or build them? Or create an army of giant mutant atomic chihuahuas?

Now you mention it, 4 isn't even that much of a weakness, it's just slightly below average. 3 on the otherhand...

@wonder: You're missing the point, intelligence already had a huge impact in game for example, you usually get the best dialogue choices and could hack terminals, it raised medicine and science which both have unique paths etc. but it's impact on skillpoints was too large and it has already been confirmed that it has less of an impact in NV.

[quote name='Defend The Fold' date='17 June 2010 - 12:36 PM' timestamp='1276803385' post='16058665']
Simple answer: Play the game more than once with a different build that way you'll experience everything. More than half at 100 is ALOT and shows your lack of RPG experience to put it simply :huh:


i've played the elder scrolls and fallout 3 so i'm familiar with bethesda RPG's,but a 5 stat to me is a weakness, just being "average" in a video game leaves you in a big weakness, you need strengths. thats all there is to it. several as a matter of fact and several weak areas and several mid range areas, thats fair to me 33% master 33% weakness and 33% average, thats how i would do it. not 75% weak areas.

I didn't brag about my experience at all, and the comment about the elder scrolls really just proves what I've said. "Being average in a video game" is not a weakness, it's average and you contradicted yourself quite clearly there. In an RPG there should be more than one route you can go down to complete the game, meaning you don't need to be the best at everything to get by, e.g. a sneaky character will be just as well off as a high strength high small guns character that you may be familiar with. Being average at something is evidently a weakness in a game that isn't an RPG.

Edit: The clue is in the name dude, in an RPG you play a role. You don't become Jesus.

Ohh back off guys. He has played Bethesda's RPGs. This guy is a pro!

I thought we just established that Fo3 had alot of flaws as an RPG, and so does TES, so dont use those as examples of your experience... -_-

And average is not a weakness, is AVERAGE. The idea of an RPG is you specialize in one or two areas, and that creates your play style. Then you are average in most areas, and possibly weak in a few, to compensate for your strengths. Like if in FO3, if I have really high strength and END, maybe my Agility is lower, and Int. That creates my balanced 'blow stuff up loudly' character. I cant be strong, endurant, agile, and a genius, or else I am a GOD character. Which defeats the point.

We've just said exactly the same thing :laugh:

Ahhh ninjad. We did!