Speech and Skill Checks

Post » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:00 pm

Will these be in Skyrim? I thought Speech was useless in Oblivion but in Fallout it greatly helped.
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Cartoon
 
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Post » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:43 pm

Yeah, I replayed through Fallout New Vegas recently and I just love being able to use my speech to totally change the outcome of a quest or something similar. The only problem with that happening in TES is, I don't know how one would be able to increase Speechcraft as a skill in that method.

I'd also like to tack on that if it IS in Skyrim, I hope it isn't in the form of "[SPEECH 50] Well, I think you smell."
Remove the speech tag and just have it added extra so I still have to use my brain to determine which is the best thing to say in any given situation, only add that option if my speech is > 50.
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QuinDINGDONGcey
 
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Post » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:21 am

Yeah I hope you can avoid fights through dialog.
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Rachel Eloise Getoutofmyface
 
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Post » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:02 pm

Speechcraft has been executed very well in other games (Knights of the Old Republic for me), I hope they stick to those context-sensitive moments and don't ever, ever again feature that Speechcraft Wheel....
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Rozlyn Robinson
 
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Post » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:58 pm

Skill checks (many and often) are one of the basic hallmarks of a good RPG.

I certainly hope they include them, and hopefully it'll be more than just Speechcraft.
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emma sweeney
 
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Post » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:55 am

Yeah, I replayed through Fallout New Vegas recently and I just love being able to use my speech to totally change the outcome of a quest or something similar. The only problem with that happening in TES is, I don't know how one would be able to increase Speechcraft as a skill in that method.

I'd also like to tack on that if it IS in Skyrim, I hope it isn't in the form of "[SPEECH 50] Well, I think you smell."
Remove the speech tag and just have it added extra so I still have to use my brain to determine which is the best thing to say in any given situation, only add that option if my speech is > 50.

Fallout New Vegas has awesome implementation of dialogue system I believe developers take it in account so no more thats horrible persuasion minigame and bribing king for 1000 drakes.
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jason worrell
 
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Post » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:04 am

I hated that in New Vegas, hope it is not in Skyrim.
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Miragel Ginza
 
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Post » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:50 pm

Definitely want speech checks, but not checks that tell you they are speech checks. Ideally, you'd get speechcraft skill improvement just by talking to NPCs at a very minimal rate, but get a big bonus when passing a speech check.

And other skills, too, but it shouldn't really level them up.
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BethanyRhain
 
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Post » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:45 pm

Sure. But skip the percentages and just have it either available or not.
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Prue
 
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Post » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:56 pm

Have the checks hidden, so if you fail the check, you don't even know the option exists. Telling me that I've got a 14% chance means I can reload until I get it "right", but if the topic never appears, I just continue with the existing choices. If it does appear, don't label it [Speechcraft], either; just have it happen. The RPG mechanics and "die rolls" work best when they're invisible; when the results stare back at you and laugh (like when you missed a swing in Morrowind), players get annoyed.
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Miguel
 
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Post » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:34 am

I still like the disposition system. It makes sense if you've helped someone out a lot and been a regular customer, their disposition to you will be higher, and regardless of your speech skill they'd be more likely to let you in on a secret related to a quest or something. Speechcraft isn't necessarily convincing somebody to do something, it can be just plain making them like you more.

The persuasion wheel needs to go though, it was terrible.
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Nina Mccormick
 
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Post » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:06 am

I hated that in New Vegas, hope it is not in Skyrim.


Why?
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Jonny
 
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Post » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:40 pm

Have the checks hidden, so if you fail the check, you don't even know the option exists. Telling me that I've got a 14% chance means I can reload until I get it "right", but if the topic never appears, I just continue with the existing choices. If it does appear, don't label it [Speechcraft], either; just have it happen. The RPG mechanics and "die rolls" work best when they're invisible; when the results stare back at you and laugh (like when you missed a swing in Morrowind), players get annoyed.

This is an excellent idea. I really hope they make it like this.

What I also usually enjoy are the special dialogue choices that depend on your other attributes/skills/achievements. Fallout 3 had them, but I'm more thinking of the mod "Integration" for Oblivion. In that one, you sometimes had to choose between several responses which were all based on another "achievement", and they had a tag in front of them to indicate that. However, the difference to other systems was that the full set of choices for that dialogue was always available, but there was no way of knowing if your skill, or your fame, or your wealth would be high enough to allow you to succeed. The tags simply indicated that if you choose that option, your character will try to persuade the NPC based on the achievement mentioned in the tag.
(One extreme example: There's a quest where you have to persuade a Dark Seducer to go away, if possible without killing her since then she'll only come back more angry. There is the dialogue option "[Rank] I command you to leave!", which will always fail... unless you completed the Shivering Isles main quest. Or another option based on Conjuration, which to my knowledge simply always fails, because it's just a stupid thing to say in that kind of situation.)

I also really hope that you will be able to use Speechcraft also for "negative" purposes, like challenging someone to a duel, or taunting somebody. Oblivion was... very weird in that regard, and while Morrowind's disposition system kind of worked on its own, the game itself sometimes was just really mean to the player, on purpose. For example the Fighters Guild mission where you have to kill an orc outlaw, and the topic for that quest was her name... so you go to her, and you click on that topic, imagining how your player is giving her some speech about law and righteousness, after which she says "well you found me, let's get this over with". Instead, what happens is that she answers "Yes that is my name. What do you want?"
I want to kill you because you are an outlaw with a bounty on your head. Or at least the head of the local Fighters Guild says so, and I don't trust her, so I thought I should, like, talk to you first about it.
But the game doesn't let me do this, so my only choice is to either taunt-spam you until you finally get armed, or to start attacking you while you're completely defenseless.
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Alisha Clarke
 
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Post » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:06 am

Yeah, I replayed through Fallout New Vegas recently and I just love being able to use my speech to totally change the outcome of a quest or something similar.

Agreed :)
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TASTY TRACY
 
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Post » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:13 am

Yes:) they really make your character seem like they're trained professionals and know the ins and outs of that particular skill. But I hope it's a little more complex, maybe with a chance of failure depending on your skill level.
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Tyler F
 
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Post » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:50 am

Yeah, I replayed through Fallout New Vegas recently and I just love being able to use my speech to totally change the outcome of a quest or something similar. The only problem with that happening in TES is, I don't know how one would be able to increase Speechcraft as a skill in that method.

I'd also like to tack on that if it IS in Skyrim, I hope it isn't in the form of "[SPEECH 50] Well, I think you smell."
Remove the speech tag and just have it added extra so I still have to use my brain to determine which is the best thing to say in any given situation, only add that option if my speech is > 50.


This...
Go back to the old hidden stat and skill checks.
If a new topic comes up due to one add the feel in the writting.

I.E: Instead of speech 50, pass.
Speak to Docham Madhat.
"Can you help me I'm looking for my grandma".
Player, "You know you're sweating abit, is there something wrong".
"Every time you mention going to your grandmas house your nose twitches".
"Why don't you tell me what's going on before I have to get physical with you".
"Grab him as he tries to run away".

This uses two speech checks, a strength check, then a agility check just in that one dialogue.
Add in plentiful topic choices you have a massive amount of choice in a dialogue.
Depending on role if you want to play good or bad, you can chose how much you wish to trust and help him or any even.
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lolli
 
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