Not true. You cast the spells at the strength you want the crystal to remember them at. Using other buttons to adjust area of effect and what not. When you're happy with it you release the spell button and if you want to add more spell you assign the spells to your mapped buttons and go through them one by one.

The spell in your inventory would be cast at the level that your spell was assigned to during its creation. So a charged fireball would be cast only as a charged fireball. That is you cannot increase your custom spells' power anymore than in its creation. The time to cast it would be the same and would stack with the time to cast other spell effects. There has to be a penalty otherwise its overpowering. So duration of the custom spell depends on how you use it in-game and how much available mana you have.

Within the spell-making circle and in spell-making mode your mapped buttons or keys would take on some different functions. You dont need to run, to strike with a weapon, to pick thing up, to really move your character at all and so on when making a spell in real-time.

Instant cast spells are game-breaking. No one should be able to cast a Master level destruction spell with others spells combined with it instantly at just the cost of mana. The NEW RULE is that spells that are more powerful take more time to cast. This rule is realistic.

Restate them, then, if you actually care about my opinion. You clearly care enough to quote and respond to me. The ones that I remember, again, tend to be these:

Spellcrafting opened up RP opportunities. I've countered with my view that the RP opportunities it provides are shallow, predicated upon the premise that RP is in and of itself largely meaningless unless the game world is equipped to respond to it. In my mind RP that's mostly in your mind with no feedback is not really RP at all.

Spellcrafting required and rewarded imagination. I've countered this with my view that spellcrafting was more limited than you're willing to admit, given that it was mostly tweaking individual effects and then stacking them atop one another. Direct interaction between effects was itself very limited. Things such as conjuring minions and then applying effects to them was on the higher end of complexity potential, and typically by the time you've gotten to that point you start to eliminate the challenge in the vanilla game.

Spellcrafting required and rewarded intelligence. I've countered this with my view that it really didn't, since most exploits were blatant and obvious. It doesn't cost a lot to make every NPC like me as much as they possibly can. It doesn't cost much to drain more health than the enemy has for one second and effectively kill them instantly. Et cetera, et cetera.

In my opinion -- opinion, mind you -- spellcrafting didn't really add much to the experience. In my experience it actually detracted from playing the game more than it added due to how easily it was abused, and how generic it could make individual spells feel. Spell effectiveness scaling with skill level and the ability to cast two spells simultaneously eliminates two major practical reasons to include the feature. What's left is RP, which is something that's entirely subjective. For your sake I hope that it's easy to mod in and that Bethesda figures out a way to allow mods to be used on consoles. I think that the fact that racial powers can be assigned to the shout button at least leaves a framework in place to create such a thing. I'd also strongly advise you invest in an adequate PC to play the game since it allows for much deeper modding. In my mind the most devoted fans of the series are those that recognize the value of customizing the game to their liking in a fundamental manner. Your opinion may differ, but I really think that those who play the games on consoles are missing a very big part of what makes the series so great.

I'd hazard a guess at it being widespread arithmophobia.

You cant keep track of all of that without an interface. Those dreaded numbers and scales actually make it easier and more intuitive to create. Not holding down a button until I get turn undead level 25 in 10 feet for 20 seconds. How would that even be displayed without an interface?

The charm of the open world games is that you can break them and play outside designer's intentions . This is where spell making comes in , you can levitate over dragons, start a fight and then cast recall to escape, use teleportation to move people around. Don't tell me you didn't thought of casting an 1' burden 20pts on target to the guy in the mill .
After all it is single player only , what i do in my game is none's concern ; it isn't a MMORPG where other people's creativity will make you feel like an idiot.



New things i learn in this forums

1. Removing all attributes is a new attribute system
2. Magic system is improving by removing

That holds no appeal for me. No more than using the developer console does.

Fear of numbers?

I hope you have more reasons then this to agree with its complete removal. All you mention can be improved and balanced. Would you not want to able to create a flamethrower spell with more effects to it in an improved spell creation system? designed to be appealing yet deep and rewarding?

To me, the system was too exploited. It shows that the developer was being lazy when they created it. If they find a way to balance out the issues I wouldn't care if it stays in.

You're thinking old tech and not listening to what I'm saying. How long you cast a spell (its duration) is determined in-game and as such is irrelevant to any spell-making system in Skyrim. So duration has been eliminated from your need to factor it in. This means that you can use a spell like Invisibility combined with feather as an active use spell that you can turn off when you don't need it to conserve mana. The NEW RULES of spell casting in the new system is that there are spells that drain magicka while in use by holding the mapped spell button.

When making spells in the warded spell circle their effects will be listed as floating information in the corner of the screen so you get a visual spell-making effect during the whole process that looks similar to how the new spell will look like in the game. Read the OP (its been listed there).

If you want a spray of frost mixed with burden magic to last for 10 seconds then hold the spell button when casting it for 10 seconds or until your magicka runs out. Thats how the new system works so its more immersive.

Please, spell creation wasn't that big of a deal. If you want it so badly buy a PC and make a mod of it. Just copy the files/items/etc. that allowed spell creation in Oblivion, tweak them a bit, adjust them to the new magic system and you have spell creation in Skyrim. It'll take some time, but hey if you like interfaces, you'll probably like the creation kit interface too.

Why don't you two combine those 2 ideas of yours. interface combined with cool looking spell creation. Numbers to give details, effects represented by the spells you equip and whopa. how you increase those effects does not really matter. Holding down a button with nice effects or moving a slider. There are many ways to combine ideas.

You didn't make a spell. You just listed a few effects but you left out a lot of important information :

- What's the look of the spell while equipped in your hand
- What is the method by which the spell will be applied on the target? Is that a touch spell or a directional cone spell? Or maybe it's a trap glyph or an autoaiming ball.
- What is the LOOK of the spell while it's traveling between your hand and the target. A ball of pink light? A bolt of lightning falling from the sky? A ray of light shooting from your finger? A gravity and air friction affected quasi physical sphere?
- If it applies, what's the projectile speed? Hitscan or not? If it autoaims, what's the turn rate it's allowed? Does it track forever or does it loses track if it shoots past the target. When it tracks the target can it navigate around obstacles or not?
- What happens when the projectile hits the target? Does it stop right there, does it explodes, does it hits and fly past the target while droping mini explosions on the way?
- And what if the projectile hits a wall? Does it explode too? Does it bounce back like a metal ball would or stick to the wall until something happens?


There's SOO much more going on in spell creation. Magic in older games was bland bland bland and making it better would make spell creation a LOT more complex. Too complex even.

I'm not convinced that such a system is compatible with what they're going for in Skyrim, or with this style of game in general. Possible, perhaps, but I find that its primary flaw is that in a single player game you're simply not facing opponents that are capable of effectively responding to your machinations. Against human opponents who can see precisely what you're doing and formulate a proper counter to it, then it would absolutely be a great thing to have. In a game like this? No AI handling multiple entities in real time can ever infer what you're doing to a satisfactory degree yet exists. To me it's not being rewarded for your cleverness as much as it is beating on someone who's fundamentally weaker than you. I want to have more restrictions on my power in place. Some people on this forum apparently don't, and I of course disagree with them.

Wow, a lot of personal attacks in this thread. I am going to see if I can tidy it up.

OK, carry on discussing spell making but please do so in a constructive and civil way without the personal attacks aimed at other members because they have differing opinions.

Continueing were we left! Thanks to Rohugh for cleaning up. Let us start anew and debate.

I do not think that because the A.I. is not up to par with spell creation is enough reason to axe an entire feature. If the spell making system had been balanced such a problem would be solved. And the powerfull selfmade spells are supposed to be powerfull! And if all the balancing worked out then you would only be able to obtain those on a high level.

I can't say I ever used spells for much more than enchanting effects. HOWEVER I agree that less options is not a good thing in a TES game. With that said, I'm sure playing a magical character will still be amazing . Look forward to being pure mage! I doubt it will disappoint.

Also you be opening a can of trolls. :\ Your thread is going to come under harsh scrutiny lol.

Edit: I had this written up before the thread got closed? Was I right or what? lol

Good thing trolls get banned. Flamebaiting should really be avoided though.

I plea to everyone: please do not resort to name calling or insulting. As you all know things tend to get out of control when people start getting aggresive.

The removal of spell creation is a good thing. Mainly because Bethesda will now be able to make unique spells that can't be added in the spell creation altar, such as circle of protection and so forth. Also, it would prevent us bugging the game, having infinite magicka and 100% resistance to everything, as well as being 100% cloaked by chameleon. It's a good thing and you all should realize it.

But I want to spend hundreds of thousands of Septims so I can have 100% resistance to everything and be 100% cloaked by chameleon if I so choose.

Who needs freedom when you have graphics? :cryvaultboy:

Read the OP and perhaps also all other reply's because you give the impression you haven't.

Well there is a lot of pros and cons to throw around, but for me the bottom line is - spellcrafting is one of the things that made TES unique, it although added freedom, role playing value and allowed for more creativity, I am very sad that it was removed

I hope people can reply to this without using unbalanced, exploitable, abused, overpowered or anything like that. Discuss why you don't want to have an improved spell creation system.

It was removed for reasons the devs chose to disclose - as it taking "the magic away from magic". If you can make a spell doing whatever you want, it takes some of the wonder out of it.

I never used it myself except for game breaking stuff after finishing the game - so there is no real reason for me to want it. But I'm sure it was really removed for the same reason levitation and mark/recall are no longer a part of TES.