Well said sir. I for one won't really miss spell creation much, as I never really use it. I think it should be included in the game for the people who do tho. I still have hope that spell creation may be IN in some form, maybe just not how it used to be. Perhaps they are planning on releasing a really big DLC later on that focuses soley on mages and the creation of magic. We can't ever forget that stuff CAN be added to game later if it's not included in the Novemeber release. If Bethesda sees that enough people are clamoring for spell creation just like they did for the removal of the ending from Fallout 3, perhaps they will create something for us if it's not in already.

I hope for this so much i just don't understand why it can't be in the game, out of the box. :sadvaultboy: and people seem to love telling you it's not going to be in. (i understand that!)

I had completely forgotton about that!

Itll be interesting to see what this "way of getting around that" is. Maybe they removed it cos it didnt work well, or maybe its still there and better than anything we could think up. However judging by the gameplay footage weve seen, i dont think im going to need spell making ^_^

I think it would be more interesting if we could dynamically create a spell with a base number of components and a starting power for each component and give it a name in our spell book. It's just plain and simple common sense, You don't want to be repeating the same steps all the time to cast a commonly used succession of spells.

This really ticks me off, especially since spell creation has been in TES since arena, and its one of my favourite things about magic. I really hope it's in the game :ahhh:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/podcasts/archive/2011/02/03/toddhowardse.aspx it seems like it is just a ui thing, I'd take it even if it was just a spread sheet sounds kinda hopeful actually....

I remember this qoute as well. The fact that he actually mentions spell crafting in that sentence makes me think that they have indeed created some new form of spell crafting. It may not be as deep as previous titles but It's probably still in in some form just the same.

Not that big of a deal to me that spell-creation has been removed. I never cared for it in past TES games, so I could care less.

BootySweat has a really nice post here, with the full quote >>> http://forums.uesp.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=23846

And a good description of what could be...

"I still have a gnawing sensation there is some possibility spells are perks related to the sheer numbers of the perks (60-100 different perks for the magic skills); however, as Todd mentions in the quote above, we will "find" spells, which seems to rule out spells being perks, fortunately.

I'm thinking that perhaps we find spell tomes with specific spell effects, like Fire, Frost, Shock, etc., and then the perks are the different delivery methods, like casting on the ground, casting as a spray, exploding like a bomb, etc.

As for Conjuration, Restoration and Alteration skills, I imagine they would have very different perks, so when you find tomes for spell effects like Clairvoyance, Healing, etc., there won't be any perk to cast it on the ground, for example, but perhaps perk that makes the duration longer, the effect more powerful, or multiple conjured creatures in the case of Conjuration."

Honestly I liked spell creation, and I'll miss it, but I feel like people are blowing it out of proportion.

We can equip 2 spells at once, and have different methods of casting them for different effects as well as combining certain spells. We will have active spell creation everytime we equip spells

no..no we wont. there is no Combining effects or spells, you cant make Frenzy and light combine.

Flame thrower, Fireball, Fire rune, and AOE blast are all fire, there is no different effects to them. thats not active spell creation its using spells fable style, and after the 30th time doing that its going to get boring, how anyone sees the Joy in fire paralyze, then shock, then switch them out to use disintegrate armor and wepaon is beyond me for what could have been 1 spell with the approprate requirement in Magicka

I loved spellmaking too and I still do but I agree with Todd. The spreadsheet interface broke immersion to a degree. I feel that if spell-making can be implemented in a non-interface manner then this will make spell-making more visual, more involved, more tangible and thus a viable addition to the game that doesn't defy Todd's new vision for the series.

What do you mean by non interface? i think there has to be an interface to some degree, and has anyone ever complained about sc interface being immersion breaking before todd mentioned it?

If you read my posts I was talking about the exclusion of game-breaking, unrealistic, and exploitative spells in spell-making such as fire-paralysis, frost with fire, and the 100% chameleon spell.

Frost in spray form coupled with burden would be compatible. To be honest I dont think more than 3 spell effects would be realistic for any one casting of a spell. Besides that because of the new spell casting rules you would be at a disadvantage casting a spell with 3 spell effects because the more mana it costs to cast a spell the longer it would take to cast.

DONT HATE ME FOR SAYING IT BUT THIS IS WHY SPELL-MAKING IS OBSOLETE:

So say it takes 10 seconds to charge fireball to a decent level (a one hit damage spell), 10 seconds to cast disintegrate armor (a one hit with effect spell), and 10 seconds to cast burden (which might be a continual spell effect while being cast spell with an area effect).

That means that to cast a fireball-disintegrate-armor-burden spell would take 30 seconds to charge before you get the benefit of any one spell effect.

Using the spell individually would mean you could cast burden continually thus draining your magicka, and charge a disintegrate armor spell cast it, and charge a fireball and cast it. So thats 20 seconds plus the small animation time to cast burden while duel wielding magic (the game pauses when you switch spells). Thus individual spells are more effective.

In terms of twin effect custom spells it would be viable but isnt, if you can combine spells in the game then spell making is completely negated because of the it-takes-X-amount-of-time-to-cast-a-spell-with-Y-amount-of-mana-cost rule. A twin spell effect such as fireball (10 secs of charging to cast to make it worth casting) and burden (continual area effect draining magicka at a set rate per second) would take 10 seconds to cast. This is no different that casting the spells in singular form. The only benefit that a custom spell with two spell effects attached to it could have is that you can cast one spell with two effects and use a second spell without having to pause the game. But the edge is so insignificant because switching spells pauses the game, which means no battle time is lost fumbling through lists for the right spell.

Furthermore, having to use singular spell forms in this way makes for more interesting strategy. The only possibly benefit we could get out of spell-making would be purely entertainment value because its use in combat would be negated by what I previously mentioned.

what are these new rules? I'm sorry but iv'e never heard of them.

The OP quotes a suggestion I made that specifies how spell-making is achievable in real-time without an interface.

Basically, to sum it up, you would be in spell-making mode in a safely warded circle. In spell-making mode your buttons like sprint and movement buttons and anolog sticks or keys if you use a pc would all have different functions. Duration is determined when you use the actual spell in combat so we no longer worry about that. But area of effect, potency, range, etc could all be set with those buttons instead of using numerical values or sliding buttons. Hence we could also get a visual on what the spell would look like on screen. For example, our character in the warded circle would have a projectile for fireball being modified, this projectile might increase in size relative to our adjustments... we no longer need numerical values for range and area of effect because we would have a visual representation of that effect on screen (a much more accurate way of making a spell).

But like I pointed out before, spell-making is obsolete now because I can take a fireball and charge it up to any size within the limit of my available magicka pool - I am essentially spell-making on the spot in battle now.

Multiple effects in one spell arent viable because now the magic takes time to cast when it costs more mana (that is, it takes longer to cast a 100pts damage fireball than a 10pts damage fireball as it should) it would take longer to utilise the spells effects of the spell than it would to cast them individually.

The only custom spells that would be beneficial are spells that combine effects of paralysis with say fire damage. Such spells exploit the magic system making mages overpowered. Sad but true.

There is no reason why you cant equip light and frenzy together. They may or may not combine if you hold both triggers. The only example we've seen of spells combining together were same effect healing spells. But I dont believe we've heard that you -can't- combine different effect spells together. Todd's one multi effect cast was an on self spell (detect life) and a target spell (frenzy) which makes sense that they wouldn't combine. But he was still able to cast them at the same time, which is essentially the same thing as creating a spell that casts detect life on self and frenzy on target.

Ive deduced the rules of the spell system from the footage as best I can.

The more damage a charged spell like fireball is to make the longer you have to charge it. The longer you charge a spell the more mana it costs. So, the more powerful spell takes longer to cast as well as costing more mana.

When magicka is being used it does not regenerate. When magicka is no longer in use (not being consumed or drained) then magicka will replenish.

It may be possible to use a continual effect spell which constantly drains magicka when in use (such as detect life) and then another spell (like the charge and release spell called fireball) moments after the first spell - this would occur in dual wielding. If this is the case (and in the demo Todd stopped using detect life which is a continual effect spell, and then cast frenzy, which is a projectile spell - so we dont know for sure, just a vague description in an article mentioning it) then we could theoretically charge a fireball spell then immediately after cast invisibility. So, until we release the charged fireball spell or our mana runs out we could cast our fireball spell in complete stealth. Unless of course NPCs use detect life to counter our use of invisibility (not likely but possible).

You can only cast one projectile spell at a time as far as we know.

... thats all Ive got off the top of my head.

PS. I can see no reason why light and frenzy would be a beneficial spell to cast together. You would want to light up an enemy thats in a frenzy and attacking other foes while under its influence? Detect life is much more useful in this situation.

Anyone have any idea of spell effects that we could combine that would be beneficial? They cant be exploitative so as to be game-breaking or incompatible like fire and ice magic.

I think what he means is that you can throw two different spells at the same time, confirmed by Nick Breckon

which I already addressed in my Point to him, how people see the appeal in casting 4-5 different spells to get the desired effect that we've been able to do in one or 2 spells since Arena is beyond me.

We cannot make our own weapons or armor isn't that also a dent in freedom?

we can't?

4-5 different spell effects cast simultaneously would incur a time penalty on top of the mana cost of each spell. The mana cost would stack and the time to cast each spell would stack too. This is to balance the system. The days of instant casting uber spells or spells with multiple effects are gone. Multiple effects of more than two really are overpowering a mage to not be given penalties and the penalties that apply make it counterproductive to use any spell combination that would not be considered game-breaking.

Is this price (spell-making) too high to make us pay for the new magic system? Well, no. I think that with the new magic system we are effectively performing spell-making on the spot as our need. dictates You want a massive fireball you can charge it up on the spot. You want a smaller fireball? You can cast it on the spot too. Whatever you need a spell to do you can adjust it, within reason, to serve your purposes within the limits of your available magicka and to the extent of your skill level in that school of magic. That's why I think its fantastic.

You can make your own weapons, armor, and jewellery. The QuakeCon articles confirmed this.


Off topic was he. Mmmm yes.

I can live without it so long as max spells are in the game. If there are spells to paralyze someone for a minuet, 100% chameleon for a minuet, and spells that will turn me into a giant rock monster, i dont need to make my own spells.