Spell Creation removal : V - Skyrim

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:24 am

I don't know what to say about it, honestly in Oblivion I just found myself remaking the spells I already had so what was the point of it really? I'm kind of glad its gone.

I don't think we want the old system back but a improved one. Think about combining elements, more balance, tailoring spells to your needs and tastes. It would have been a great improvement. But like a I said it takes away chunk of freedom, no matter how pointless it may seem to you.

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:40 am

Personally I don't think I'm gonna miss it, it seems to be because of the new effects integrated into the elements, so combining spells would [censored] that up mightily. Probably also a balance issue, why dual wield two spells when you can have them in one hand.

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:45 am

Has this been confirmed yet? Anyway I remember in Oblivion I made a spell named after my gym teacher and it demoralized on touch

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:10 am

Many have been arguing about spell creation being removed from the game. Although it is not confirmed it will be most likely that it will not make the final product. Either way, spell creation is one of the cornerstones of the TES series and here is why I think this is so.

The foundation of The Elder scrolls is freedom and spell creation represents freedom. To remove spell creation is taking away a part of our freedom in this next installment and not just for mages. Warriors and thieves will also suffer under its removal should it be axed. The spell creation system should have been improved and not entirely removed. They will not only be taking away the option to customize spells to you're specific taste, they also take away a piece of you're freedom.

What would you think if Beth decided to take a way the option of traveling on foot and replaced everything by traveling on horse back? It may sound like a silly comparison but I think it applies. We will most likely be stuck to a number of spells with only being able to buy or use tomes to learn the more powerfull versions but not being able to create what we want and need for our tastes. Taking traveling on foot away would take a way the freedom of how we decide to travel just like removing spell creation takes a way the freedom of how we can create our own magic, our own way of magic, just like our own way of traveling.

I sincerely hope Beth will somehow implement spell creation for the final product. Although my hopes are diminishing, I have huge faith in Bethesda and will still be proud of the game they create for us.

Just needed this out of my system folkes :mohawk: Hope you can appreciate my ramblings! :tongue:

Well I'm with you there. Not sure how it would work out but I hope spell creation takes one form or another.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:39 pm

Has this been confirmed yet? Anyway I remember in Oblivion I made a spell named after my gym teacher and it demoralized on touch

:rofl:

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:16 am

i quakecon conference and saw that player can use two spells at the same time as combination with out the use of creating a custom spell , i also saw the player can find and learn new spells from random loot

click spoiler button it will explain some of the changes of spells compared to oblivion

Spoiler

detect life spell drained magicka as you held button so detect life spell had no timer only stayed active as long as you held the button
another fire ball spell with AoE burning had a charge up like a (super saiyan) didnt drain magicka untill fired
another spell spawned a safe zone(fear) keeping melee enemy's from setting foot inside the safe zone and ran away
another spell was a close range flame thrower which drained magicka as you held button
another spell was fire extinguisher (frost) worked same as flame thrower only cold and slowed movement of the enemy
another spell was lightning bolt which rebounded off the walls hitting enemy around the corner
another spell was thrown like a grenade which exploded into ice shrapnel killing enemys in contact
umm .. o yes frenzy spell was confirmed .....'
player could also increase the lightning bolt by x2 when casting same spell in both hands at same time

at first i was alienated why axing spell creation could even be suggested untill i saw the spells in action, it still hasn't been confirmed but it wouldn't make difference if creating spells was removed ,because you can frakkin combo 2 or x2 cast spell/s at the exact same time with out making a huge spell book woot

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:22 am

I agree that the core of the series has its basis in freedom of role playing - broad statement that. I think that whether spell creation is a cornerstone of the TES series depends on whether you dabble in magical role play. And that spell-making is really just an avenue of experiencing magical role play. I think that the spell making system (setting area of effect, duration, potency, etc) breaks immersion because it takes you away from the game - Todd said pretty much the same thing and I agree with Him.

I do not agree that spell creation represents freedom. And spell creation is the wrong term, you're not creating a new spell effect but adjusting existing ones and naming it with a unique name. What I ask of you is this: tell me how it can be improved to balance in the game and render an ideal gaming experience. If you cannot then there is no point to your thread.

You mean like they've done with the new Fable they are making to use with Kinect? That is a core component of the game and your comparison is illegitimate because you're using an unrelated extreme as an example to justify your argument - keep it in context. I get your point though, I liked spell-making. But I see how it wrecks immersion. I cannot think of a way around that. But magic is more interactive and you can still charge spells up to the extent of your magicka - you just have to be more strategic with your spell casting (which is a reasonable thing to have to do) rather than have a one-spell-does-all inventory. By the way, there is nothing stopping you from naming your spells. I mean if you charge a fireball spell for 3 seconds in Skyrim and call it the Flaminator then so be it. Its been named, and it works for you. There is virtually unlimited freedom in how you use your spells in Skyrim, they are bound by laws of magic in the game and have strengths and weaknesses, that is to be expected of realistic magic.

I just realised that November 11 is almost upon us, its really close. So I doubt it. The game is in alpha. I think you should really try out the new magic system and learn to adapt. I think that by clinging to the old way of things in Oblivion will close your mind to experiencing the new. The whole point of the new spell system is to make it feel like you're really dabbling in the arcane in real-time and not making spreadsheet spells.

Understandable, I was concerned at first too. But for what Bethesda have done to magic I feel that they are onto something good. I think I will need to be more strategic and intelligent in my use and application of magic as a result and that makes the game more challenging and interesting for me. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that, but when it comes down to it - I think its a blessing in disguise.

Spell creation is not a mage tool only. Think thieves using the school of illusion to be even more effective in their profession, warriors using some of the magic schools to complement their effectiveness in combat. If it took you away from the game then you should atleast not be so fully supportive of its entire removal. Improvements could have been easily made.

Spell creation does represent freedom. Creation although limited by all known effects is still freedom. I did not really think the previous system was perfect but like I said improvement could have been made. Combining elements, new effects, more balanced creation and more comfortable interface. Why is there no point in this thread? Creation of magic in any game is freedom. The possibility to create your own way of magic.

Although I do agree that traveling makes up a bigger part of the game then spell creation I do think that it applies pretty good. You take a way the option to experience and create your own magic/ Taking away the option of how you want to explore the world.

We do not clinch by the old way. We clinch to the new improved way.

Combining spells is a simplyfied way of spell creation. but takes away the creation and only adds the tactical wich could have been combined with creation.

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:36 am

Magic system with SC>Magic system without. Beth could make a million spells and its still not going to be tailored to my RPs like SC allows.

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:14 am

Then people won't be able to make 1 seconds cast spells with 1 magicka cost to speedlvlup at least.

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:30 am

hold on now, i just had a thought, what if the spell creation thing is tied to enchantment somehow, cause how the hell are we supposed to create our own weapons with special magic effects without some sort of interface like that

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:53 pm

I have admittedly only dabbled with spell creation in previous games and while I can see the argument for it I am okay with it being cut. From what I've seen the spell combination and having the ability to use two seperate spells at once will more then cover most situations in which you had to create a spell to tailor to each little situation. The only downside I can see is cast times but even then having a cast time of one second and one magicka was just crazy and uneeded.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:28 pm

I cant say that I am really going to miss the spell creation that much, I understand why it was removed (A lot of fans on this forum need to understand that there is usually a reason for changing something from a previous game before they start complaining) and to be perfectly honest I really diddnt use it that much. Apart from creating a spell with a night-eye + detect life effect (which I think there were already spells in the game that did that) and a few other spells for a specific purpose like a heal on touch spell for the interegation scene in the fighters guild or a fire damage on self so I could become the human torch, for buffs I usually tried to enchant them into my equipment and for offensive spells trying to put too many effects on the one spell was hardly effective in combat due to the high mana cost, it was simply more effective to switch between spells than to try and put different effects on the same spell, sure you could put weakness to fire on a fire spell but it really diddnt change the feel of the spell anyway.

But that being said since you are making such a big deal about the spell creation post a few examples of the spells you made.

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:00 pm

Like I said gandalf. Improvement could have been made.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:48 pm

Yes, this is another of "those" threads about peoples concern for spell creation within the game.

You need to ask yourself, "Why are these threads continuously being started?" and "Why do they go on and on?".

Let me answer it for you; The spell creation system is VERY popular. Something that is this popular should not be removed, no matter the reasoning.

If I gave you a good reason to jump off a cliff, would you do it? Probably not. So why try and convince people that the thing they love about a game should be removed?

If you don't like it, don't use it. Simple. But leave it in for those people that want it. There is no harm in it.

For the people that used spell creation (because they like it) there was no break in immersion, no problems with a "spreadsheety" feel. No major problems at all.

I think that spell creation is a cornerstone, nay a foundation stone, of the TES franchise. It needs to be in. :tes:

Peace. :jammasterjay:

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:40 am

Spell creation is not a mage tool only. Think thieves using the school of illusion to be even more effective in their profession, warriors using some of the magic schools to complement their effectiveness in combat. If it took you away from the game then you should atleast not be so fully supportive of its entire removal. Improvements could have been easily made.

Spell creation does represent freedom. Creation although limited by all known effects is still freedom. I did not really think the previous system was perfect but like I said improvement could have been made. Combining elements, new effects, more balanced creation and more comfortable interface. Why is there no point in this thread? Creation of magic in any game is freedom. The possibility to create your own way of magic.

Although I do agree that traveling makes up a bigger part of the game then spell creation I do think that it applies pretty good. You take a way the option to experience and create your own magic/ Taking away the option of how you want to explore the world.

We do not clinch by the old way. We clinch to the new improved way.

Combining spells is a simplyfied way of spell creation. but takes away the creation and only adds the tactical wich could have been combined with creation.

Spell-making and casting is the province of the mage. Any one who uses magical spells is a mage, and those that steal things are mages that steal things, and those that use weapons are mages too but we call them Battlemages or Magus Knights or what not.

We can still interact with magic in amazing ways its just done with pressing and holding the mapped spell buttons etc.

Change is good and not to be feared. If we feared change and denied new innovations we'd never have video games in the first place.

Although I think a lot of magic spells are incompatible by their nature alone I think spell combinations have merit. I would like to see that in the game in the new system but when I think about.. I cant think of any combinations of spells actually being believable.

Please, tell me how you would implement spell-making in Skyrim. I want to know what your solution is.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:24 pm

Yes, this is another of "those" threads about peoples concern for spell creation within the game.

You need to ask yourself, "Why are these threads continuously being started?" and "Why do they go on and on?".

Let me answer it for you; The spell creation system is VERY popular. Something that is this popular should not be removed, no matter the reasoning.

If I gave you a good reason to jump off a cliff, would you do it? Probably not. So why try and convince people that the thing they love about a game should be removed?

If you don't like it, don't use it. Simple. But leave it in for those people that want it. There is no harm in it.

For the people that used spell creation (because they like it) there was no break in immersion, no problems with a "spreadsheety" feel. No major problems at all.

I think that spell creation is a cornerstone, nay a foundation stone, of the TES franchise. It needs to be in. :tes:

Peace. :jammasterjay:

Just wanted to add my rambling to the fray :ahhh: I agree with youre ''don't like it, don't use it'' although I do not think spell creation is a foundation stone though. Certainly a big cornerstone but not the foundation. That title is claimed by freedom.

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:34 am

Spell-making and casting is the province of the mage. Any one who uses magical spells is a mage, and those that steal things are mages that steal things, and those that use weapons are mages too but we call them Battlemages or Magus Knights or what not.

We can still interact with magic in amazing ways its just done with pressing and holding the mapped spell buttons etc.

Change is good and not to be feared. If we feared change and denied new innovations we'd never have video games in the first place.

Although I think a lot of magic spells are incompatible by their nature alone I think spell combinations have merit. I would like to see that in the game in the new system but when I think about.. I cant think of any combinations of spells actually being believable.

Please, tell me how you would implement spell-making in Skyrim. I want to know what your solution is.

I do not think everyone here will be making pure builds only. Hybrid classes will probably be making up the majority of characters created. A thief using the school of illusion to more effectively dispose of he's enemies is still a thief. If I create a mage with a two handed skill does that make him a warrior? no.

But why not have more ways to interact with magic and not just pressing mapped spells?

change can certainly be a blessing and many times it is a mixed blessing. This is the 5th installment of the elderscrolls if I am correct. I think we fear the fact that our freedom in this game is becoming more limited by the sequel. Some features who got axed does perhaps deserve to be so. Other features like spell creation effect much more then the removal of spears and crosbows.

Spell combinations certainly have merit! But so does an improved spell creation system in my opinion. Combining those 2 would be the perfect scenario for me.

Well, use your imagination! element combinations, new effects, secret effects after combining. Just a bit like alchemy!

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:44 am

I don't know what to say about it, honestly in Oblivion I just found myself remaking the spells I already had so what was the point of it really? I'm kind of glad its gone. We where never really making new spells, we just made copies of spells with different names.

I agree. But there were a lot of unique spells that I made for myself that didn't exist yet. Like fire damage on self. And less idiotic spells.

If it's not in Skyrim I'll miss it a little but it won't matter to me. It's not the end of the world. Think of the goodies we get in return.

What would you pick: spell creation (like in Oblivion) or the new and awesome spell-animations (were you can actually set people on fire!)? It's a no-brainer really.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:44 pm

Screw spell creation

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:40 am

Spell-making and casting is the province of the mage. Any one who uses magical spells is a mage, and those that steal things are mages that steal things, and those that use weapons are mages too but we call them Battlemages or Magus Knights or what not.

No, SC is for any magic using build and can single handedly come up with new builds. Perhaps thats the problem, people looking at ES like a linear Mage/Warrior/Thief perspective.

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:06 pm

Screw spell creation

Screw your useless post. Do you have no value to add to this thread? Then don't post anything

I hope you don't think this will pursuade people to think the spell creation system was useless :shakehead:

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:23 am

Like I said gandalf. Improvement could have been made.

But you said spell creation was a cornerstone of the series. Now Bethesda have been trying to improve the magic system in Skyrim and unfortunately for you that means that spell creation will be removed from the game, for me the spell creation system in Oblivion did little more than allow the player to change the name and tweak already existing spells or combine a few different spells into one making them unusable due to the high magic cost so for me the removal of the spell creation for an improved magic system is more than a fair trade.

Now perhaps I am wrong and was uncreative when it come to spell creation but I dont see what the big deal is with it being removed, you and Xarnac on the other hand feel that the removal of spell creation is a big slap to the face of the fans with Xarnac even claiming that its removal will severely hurt his RP options, with claims like that I really want to know what you guys actually managed to do with the spell creation system so if you would be so kind could both you and Xarnac (and anyone who feels the same) post up some of these amazing spells that you managed to create in Oblivion?

» Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:35 pm

Spell combinations certainly have merit! But so does an improved spell creation system in my opinion. Combining those 2 would be the perfect scenario for me.

Spell-making is in effect making combinations of spells, there's a little more to it like parameters, but that's basically all it is. The new system allows you to change the parameters in a set number of ways and in terms of potency/AoE its determined by charging the spell where applicable in the game in real-time.

I'm sorry but balancing spell-making is not going to facilitate maintaining unbroken immersion for greater periods of time.

Well, use your imagination! element combinations, new effects, secret effects after combining. Just a bit like alchemy!

That is not a solution. Those are achievable and achieved with the new spell system in Skyrim. Id be keen on spell-making but not the old system which had immersion and exploitation issues, if you cannot provide a way to integrate spell-making and circumvent the issues that caused its exclusion then all you're achieving is venting your frustration and upsetting people who are really excited about the new possibilities of the new magical system.

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:21 am

But you said spell creation was a cornerstone of the series. Now Bethesda have been trying to improve the magic system in Skyrim and unfortunately for you that means that spell creation will be removed from the game, for me the spell creation system in Oblivion did little more than allow the player to change the name and tweak already existing spells or combine a few different spells into one making them unusable due to the high magic cost so for me the removal of the spell creation for an improved magic system is more than a fair trade.

Now perhaps I am wrong and was uncreative when it come to spell creation but I dont see what the big deal is with it being removed, you and Xarnac on the other hand feel that the removal of spell creation is a big slap to the face of the fans with Xarnac even claiming that its removal will severely hurt his RP options, with claims like that I really want to know what you guys actually managed to do with the spell creation system so if you would be so kind could both you and Xarnac (and anyone who feels the same) post up some of these amazing spells that you managed to create in Oblivion?

A simple example would be the heart attack spell. This can be used in all types of capacities and can be tweaked with all types of other effects to suite a lot of RPs, Necromancers, Witchdoctors, Witches, Debuff builds in general. Its really limitless. You can go abstract and create new ways to play the game, having spells more like "perks", or abilities. Sacrificial spells, "Divine" spells, aesthetically appealing (or as nice looking as you can get from Ob) spells. Its endless. Every player that utilized it got somthing different and totaly customized out of it. From depraved Illusion concoctions, to tailored specific spells that only hold any real representation within your own mind.

» Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:39 am

Screw your useless post. Do you have no value to add to this thread? Then don't post anything

I hope you don't think this will pursuade people to think the spell creation system was useless :shakehead:

LOL don't get your tampons in a mess. I'm tired of these rehasded threads about Spell Creation so yea I said it and I will say it again- Screw Spell Creation. Get over it, its not in the game. :glare: