Spell Creation removal

Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:55 am

Many have been arguing about spell creation being removed from the game. Although it is not confirmed it will be most likely that it will not make the final product. Either way, spell creation is one of the cornerstones of the TES series and here is why I think this is so.

The foundation of The Elder scrolls is freedom and spell creation represents freedom. To remove spell creation is taking away a part of our freedom in this next installment and not just for mages. Warriors and thieves will also suffer under its removal should it be axed. The spell creation system should have been improved and not entirely removed. They will not only be taking away the option to customize spells to you're specific taste, they also take away a piece of you're freedom.

What would you think if Beth decided to take a way the option of traveling on foot and replaced everything by traveling on horse back? It may sound like a silly comparison but I think it applies. We will most likely be stuck to a number of spells with only being able to buy or use tomes to learn the more powerfull versions but not being able to create what we want and need for our tastes. Taking traveling on foot away would take a way the freedom of how we decide to travel just like removing spell creation takes a way the freedom of how we can create our own magic, our own way of magic, just like our own way of traveling.

I sincerely hope Beth will somehow implement spell creation for the final product. Although my hopes are diminishing, I have huge faith in Bethesda and will still be proud of the game they create for us.

Just needed this out of my system folkes :mohawk: Hope you can appreciate my ramblings! :tongue:

Edit: Because of the constant miss used arguments about the old system let me be extra clear on that subject...I DO NOT WANT THE OLD SYSTEM, I WANT AN IMPROVED SYSTEM. :deal:


Solutions presented so far:

Thadeus suggestion:

The Winterhold Collective has a warded circle where you stand with your character - using magic begins the process. In this warded circle if you have a rare crystal (rare so you truly value it) you can combine spell effects in real-time by switching between different spells and charging them in certain ways. Without a magical crystal you will not be able to retain the spell you are creating so it would be an exercise of futility (a taste of what is to come). While using a spell you can use other buttons to lengthen or narrow its area of effect or size etc for the current spell effect your are modifying. You can add up to perhaps 3 or more compatible spell effects to one spell. When you are ready (your character will be holding a mass of magic that's twisting and reforming in different ways to represent the weaving of a new magical spell and roughly how it will look in the game when cast. The spell is stored in the crystal. The details of the spell are stored, when you're happy with them, in the crystal. The details of the spell while making it are represented by floating data in the bottom right of the screen. All exploitative use of magic (1 sec of paralysis and fireball on target for example), unrealistic combinations (like incompatible fire and ice magic), and game breaking combinations (100% chameleon) are not achievable in the warded circle because "The strain to weave this magic would be too great." You can only create a spell as powerful as your total current magicka pool. You would only have a set number of crystals you can find in the game, those crystals each create a slot in your magic menu under their own heading and not that of a School of Magic or under the heading of "All MAGIC". So, you can select and equip them from the menu the same way as you can select spell effects and assign them to a mapped button (which is how you would add and remove different spell effects in the warded circle). You should be able to rename each crystal which would be represented by the spell name thereafter. This eliminates the spell list convolution and the immersion breaking aspect (except naming your spell which takes you to the name generation screen which could be excluded). Problem solved. Dump it into an expansion and you have your solution.


Xarnac The Conqueror suggestion
Give us an altar, have created spells require two hands to wield, dont allow weakness and magicka fortification stacking, balance magicka costs, there its fine and works for everybody.

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kirsty williams
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:27 am

Its a blessing in disguise.
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Ebony Lawson
 
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Post » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:22 pm

Its a blessing in disguise.


I am afraid I don't understand you're reply :toughninja:
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Trevor Bostwick
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:57 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ&feature=autoplay&list=FL1YVkwttG0ig&index=3&playnext=1
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Nick Pryce
 
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Post » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:50 pm

yay, another one of these threads.
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Mason Nevitt
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:22 am

Its a blessing in disguise.


It must be very, very well disguised.
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Rude_Bitch_420
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:38 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ&feature=autoplay&list=FL1YVkwttG0ig&index=3&playnext=1


I doubt people can create a spell creation mod. It sounds like a lot of work. Can it be pulled off?
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Brian LeHury
 
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Post » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:35 pm

i...dont...want...life......so many plans....dashed..... :cryvaultboy: :sadvaultboy:
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Jon O
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:52 am

Definitely need spell creation. Its a cornerstone of the series and adds limitless PR possobilities and freedom. Mods will work for PC players, but console players need SC as well.
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Kay O'Hara
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:09 am

I knew this for some time now. It will take me awhile to cope with this. I just hope the spells are much more worthwhile.
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Devin Sluis
 
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Post » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:40 pm

i...dont...want...life......so many plans....dashed..... :cryvaultboy: :sadvaultboy:


Cheer up :P The game will still rock you're world. :celebration:
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dean Cutler
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:54 am

I doubt people can create a spell creation mod. It sounds like a lot of work. Can it be pulled off?


Scrolls. I've never made a mod myself, but in my head I would think that allowing enchanting to make scrolls should be easy enough.
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Steve Bates
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:54 am

Honestly, as bad as some things being changed about the game may seem.. Skyrim is going to be awesome.

Think of Pre-New Vegas days, sure Skyrim is more large-scale and has more significant changes but remember how people were skeptical about it? And how did New Vegas turn out? In my opinion, the only complaint I had was the Strip, the to-be biggest most impressive thing in the game and they messed it up pretty bad. But still, the game was worth my $108 (CE) and I don't regret it. I have faith, and I'm going to stay calm about Skyrim because I know it'll be an awesome game. :foodndrink:


But still, spell creation removal is not good at all. :shakehead:
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Amy Cooper
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:55 am

Definitely need spell creation. Its a cornerstone of the series and adds limitless PR possobilities and freedom. Mods will work for PC players, but console players need SC as well.


Console players will suffer most under its removal. Never thougth of that :/ If I do not get a new pc soon I'll be [censored]!
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stevie trent
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:06 am

Cheer up :P The game will still rock you're world. :celebration:

but...my plans...a glyph mixed with fire and lightning, in 50ft for 10 damage for 10 seconds...so pretty...rats setting it off... :cryvaultboy: :cryvaultboy:
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meg knight
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:30 am

but...my plans...a glyph mixed with fire and lightning, in 50ft for 10 damage for 10 seconds...so pretty...rats setting it off... :cryvaultboy: :cryvaultboy:


I guess we will probably have to do with a glyph of fire with 50ft radius with 10 damage for 10 seconds. Or perhaps a more restricted version :sadvaultboy: since we don't know the limits of the most powerfull spells in Skyrim.

I have been thinking though that its removal will probably also take a way to becoming a truly powerfull mage as you will be restricted to a limited number of spells.
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Charleigh Anderson
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:53 am

Its removal will remove almost a third of my builds. Effectively limiting my RPs. Making magical build possobilities superior in previous games. :foodndrink: Here's to Todd and Co. working out a way for spell creation, last minute like.
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T. tacks Rims
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:36 am

I guess we will probably have to do with a glyph of fire with 50ft radius with 10 damage for 10 seconds. Or perhaps a more restricted version :sadvaultboy: since we don't know the limits of the most powerfull spells in Skyrim.

I have been thinking though that its removal will probably also take a way to becoming a truly powerfull mage as you will be restricted to a limited number of spells.

ugh, shattered, my hopes for magicka, ill see what changes are made ill still love it but, bleh why would they do that make the game come out in december just add it in for odins sake
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meghan lock
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:46 am

Its removal will remove almost a third of my builds. Effectively limiting my RPs. Making magical build possobilities superior in previous games. :foodndrink: Here's to Todd and Co. working out a way for spell creation, last minute like.

OH i REALLY hope so
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hannaH
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:53 am

I don't know what to say about it, honestly in Oblivion I just found myself remaking the spells I already had so what was the point of it really? I'm kind of glad its gone. We where never really making new spells, we just made copies of spells with different names.
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Lyndsey Bird
 
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Post » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:15 pm

I don't know what to say about it, honestly in Oblivion I just found myself remaking the spells I already had so what was the point of it really? I'm kind of glad its gone.


Other people were a bit more creative.
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Petr Jordy Zugar
 
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Post » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:16 pm

Many have been arguing about spell creation being removed from the game. Although it is not confirmed it will be most likely that it will not make the final product. Either way, spell creation is one of the cornerstones of the TES series and here is why I think this is so.

The foundation of The Elder scrolls is freedom and spell creation represents freedom. To remove spell creation is taking away a part of our freedom in this next installment and not just for mages. Warriors and thieves will also suffer under its removal should it be axed. The spell creation system should have been improved and not entirely removed. They will not only be taking away the option to customize spells to you're specific taste, they also take away a piece of you're freedom.

What would you think if Beth decided to take a way the option of traveling on foot and replaced everything by traveling on horse back? It may sound like a silly comparison but I think it applies. We will most likely be stuck to a number of spells with only being able to buy or use tomes to learn the more powerfull versions but not being able to create what we want and need for our tastes. Taking traveling on foot away would take a way the freedom of how we decide to travel just like removing spell creation takes a way the freedom of how we can create our own magic, our own way of magic, just like our own way of traveling.

I sincerely hope Beth will somehow implement spell creation for the final product. Although my hopes are diminishing, I have huge faith in Bethesda and will still be proud of the game they create for us.

Just needed this out of my system folkes :mohawk: Hope you can appreciate my ramblings! :tongue:


We do NOT need the ability to craft spells in the game...

We do however REQUIRE a much more efficient editor tool allowing us more freedom to introduce our own spells into the game via mods (the construction set for Oblivion was crap).

-KC
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Marquis T
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:41 am

Many have been arguing about spell creation being removed from the game. Although it is not confirmed it will be most likely that it will not make the final product. Either way, spell creation is one of the cornerstones of the TES series and here is why I think this is so.

I agree that the core of the series has its basis in freedom of role playing - broad statement that. I think that whether spell creation is a cornerstone of the TES series depends on whether you dabble in magical role play. And that spell-making is really just an avenue of experiencing magical role play. I think that the spell making system (setting area of effect, duration, potency, etc) breaks immersion because it takes you away from the game - Todd said pretty much the same thing and I agree with Him.

The foundation of The Elder scrolls is freedom and spell creation represents freedom. To remove spell creation is taking away a part of our freedom in this next installment and not just for mages. Warriors and thieves will also suffer under its removal should it be axed. The spell creation system should have been improved and not entirely removed. They will not only be taking away the option to customize spells to you're specific taste, they also take away a piece of you're freedom.

I do not agree that spell creation represents freedom. And spell creation is the wrong term, you're not creating a new spell effect but adjusting existing ones and naming it with a unique name. What I ask of you is this: tell me how it can be improved to balance in the game and render an ideal gaming experience. If you cannot then there is no point to your thread.

What would you think if Beth decided to take a way the option of traveling on foot and replaced everything by traveling on horse back? It may sound like a silly comparison but I think it applies. We will most likely be stuck to a number of spells with only being able to buy or use tomes to learn the more powerfull versions but not being able to create what we want and need for our tastes. Taking traveling on foot away would take a way the freedom of how we decide to travel just like removing spell creation takes a way the freedom of how we can create our own magic, our own way of magic, just like our own way of traveling.

You mean like they've done with the new Fable they are making to use with Kinect? That is a core component of the game and your comparison is illegitimate because you're using an unrelated extreme as an example to justify your argument - keep it in context. I get your point though, I liked spell-making. But I see how it wrecks immersion. I cannot think of a way around that. But magic is more interactive and you can still charge spells up to the extent of your magicka - you just have to be more strategic with your spell casting (which is a reasonable thing to have to do) rather than have a one-spell-does-all inventory. By the way, there is nothing stopping you from naming your spells. I mean if you charge a fireball spell for 3 seconds in Skyrim and call it the Flaminator then so be it. Its been named, and it works for you. There is virtually unlimited freedom in how you use your spells in Skyrim, they are bound by laws of magic in the game and have strengths and weaknesses, that is to be expected of realistic magic.

I sincerely hope Beth will somehow implement spell creation for the final product. Although my hopes are diminishing, I have huge faith in Bethesda and will still be proud of the game they create for us.

I just realised that November 11 is almost upon us, its really close. So I doubt it. The game is in alpha. I think you should really try out the new magic system and learn to adapt. I think that by clinging to the old way of things in Oblivion will close your mind to experiencing the new. The whole point of the new spell system is to make it feel like you're really dabbling in the arcane in real-time and not making spreadsheet spells.

Just needed this out of my system folkes :mohawk: Hope you can appreciate my ramblings! :tongue:

Understandable, I was concerned at first too. But for what Bethesda have done to magic I feel that they are onto something good. I think I will need to be more strategic and intelligent in my use and application of magic as a result and that makes the game more challenging and interesting for me. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that, but when it comes down to it - I think its a blessing in disguise.
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sophie
 
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Post » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:07 pm

We do NOT need the ability to craft spells in the game...

We do however REQUIRE a much more efficient editor tool allowing us more freedom to introduce our own spells into the game via mods (the construction set for Oblivion was crap).

-KC


So... why not include the ability to do it ingame as well?
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Elea Rossi
 
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Post » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:29 pm

We do NOT need the ability to craft spells in the game...

We do however REQUIRE a much more efficient editor tool allowing us more freedom to introduce our own spells into the game via mods (the construction set for Oblivion was crap).

-KC

there we are much better
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James Baldwin
 
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