Because Todd didnt say it was of course.

Can people read posts, before commenting on them? Please?

I'm not justifying the removal of actual Spellmaking. I'm explaining why the new system wouldn't work as neat-n-tidy with it, but how the new magic system seemingly creates a better "Feel" to magic.



Every lame insult you try to sling out, is just another drive home, that you don't have a legitimate argument.

Don't worry I read your post, I just want someone to answer that properly without dancing around it and telling me I don't know what Im talking about, I see better replies to flaming trolls than anything I bring forward as if Im talking with crap in my mouth.

Its gonna lose its "feeling" real quick with only 85 spells across 5 schools.

I want spell making but seriously people chill. :hugs:

I'll be disappointed if it's out but I'm also very excited to see how magic works in the game!

That is legitimate. link to were people thought spellmaking was too spreadsheety before Todd said it. I already gave my argument. there's no reason to exclude it and every reason to keep it. just because X person didnt use it or get it, doesnt mean we all didnt. there's a lot more complex things in a ES game than spell making. Spell making is really easy.

Like Omega said, where are all the people that think enchanting is too spreadsheety, its basically the same thing. In fact they seem to be making it more complex and 'spreadsheety'. Not to mention I haven't insulted anybody.

I'm not a big fan of Custom spells but hey if it's possible then I'm fine with it. I have to say Beth deserves a lot of credit for putting a lot of detail into the items. From what I read in that preview rotating the Claw shows symbols and I'm willing to bet that's the tip of the iceberg under this system.

[In regards to Enchanting-Repair-Smithing-Alechemy]
Well, I'll address your first point then, because that is legitimate. And you're right, they're not different, but I wasn't aware it was implied they were. Ask me how I think those features should be handled, if you want my opinion there.


[Magic]
As for, losing it's "Feeling", right now we can both only draw assumptions, and you know what they say about those right?

But for sake of a progressive debate, I'll draw comparisons from Morrowind, My favorite entry. In Morrowind, Magic felt so empty. It was simply scrolling through a list, and pressing a button at your targeted foe. Nothing more. That's bland, but to be fair, the melee combat was much the same. Pick your weapon from a list, and slash slash slash. Even though Morrowind was my favorite game of all time, I can proudly say, it had some of the worst combat mechanics of any game in it's prestige level, and even some well below it.

DIsclaimer: All Assumptions, based on information that is very much open to interpretation.

Skyrim is at least trying to break the "List and cast" model for magic. By applying tactical and dynamic magic combos, as well as a more context-sensitive approach, rather than simply selecting your desired range-effect from a list. This puts the player in a position of seemingly more control, instead of making it feel like the game has control, as it would in a drop-list of effects.

If that makes a little sense, I'm justifying the overall change, rather than the removal of spellmaking itself. If I, personally, had to choose between the spellmaking feature, and dynamic magic combat, I'd definitely choose the dynamic magic combat, I assume you wouldn't? If so, why not?




I personally just think you're trying to be coy now. It was pretty obvious you were intending to suggest I "Wasn't clever enough" To think up my own anology, instead using Todd's astute, albeit, overused "Spreadsheet" anolysis. But I'll give the benefit of the doubt, because a lot of nuance is lost in forums, so I could very well be wrong in that assumption.

You make that sound like it's a small number. If it weren't for the Favorites system replacing hotkeys, you'd be mapping about 80% of your keyboard to spells. How many various spells did you use in Morrowind and Oblivion?

Stupid Baldur's Gate and its limited amount of spells, they became so boring after a while...

... oh wait... they didn't.

And I'm pretty sure it's going to be more varied than Oblivion/Morrowind's fireball-bigger fireball spells, and the spell combos will make it even more interesting.

I don't know how are they going to add spellmaking if they're adding it.

They probably don't count the context and combo-based subvarients either. Like "Fireball" 1 of the 85 spells, could technically function alone as 3-5 different spells.

If 85 does include the combo and contextual sub-variants, then 85 is definitely a low number.

Im not being coy, I was keeping it real. 90% of the people that dont want X feature is because either A: they didnt use it, B: it was too complicated for them, C: because Todd said so, D: they are overt balance freaks. Every one of those "excuses" can be refuted by the 'Dont like it dont use it', or the 'you didnt get everything out of TES, thats fine, but no excuse against the people that did'. There was nothing wrong with TES magic. So it didnt have awesome animations, who cares? Its one of the best and diverse magic systems ever implemented into a game.

And equipping a spell so you can hold the button down, or tap it etc. isn't that much more deeper, tactile, strategic etc. as the previous systems. It sounds like the fan boys are the ones being coy and dancing around legitimate rebukes and explanations. You should of seen the acrobatics thread last night. It was hilarious. I basically refuted every fallacious statement they made then they tried to change the subject and say Middle Earth is Nirn, or just tried to insult me.

Even if it isn't "Much" more, it is still a quantifiable step forward. It really just makes it not seem so static, which is a feeling that's counter-productive to the whole point of games, being an engaging medium. I'm meaning to imply, that it's implied (because we really don't know) to be a lot more dynamic. Not necessarily deeper or strategic.

If it were going to be a perfect game, which it most definitely isn't, then we'd have both this dynamic magic system, with an unlimited amount of flexibility through custom spell creation. But if we wait for the perfect game, we'll never get it. As long as technology moves forward, and economics drive the industry, we'll never actually get a "Perfect" Game, but that just means we always have something to look forward to.

It's probably worth mentioning, that the modder tools will likely fix it within a month of launch though, so if you're a PC gamer, there's that. I'm definitely not trying to be the "Modders will take care of it" type person though, just saying, at least there is that beacon of hope on the horizon.

It doesnt have to be perfect, although I know that if its not in, it will be modded within the first couple months. This does nothing for me though since Im on a console. I would take a delay to get spell creation.

the two systems are not mutually exclusive. Just like Perks and Attributes didnt have to be either.

I agree. Just because I sympathize with a choice, doesn't mean I agree with it. I guess I just have too much of an empathic drive. They aren't technically mutually exclusive, but, again, they do eventually have to release the game. It can't just be an endless string of promises and demos. That's kind of what happened with Duke Nukem forever, minus the demos until Gearbox got ahold of it. Unfortunately, nobody will really know if the game comes out, and we get our hand on it, that the changes in the system will create a sum greater than the origin point.

I just cant sympathize, or advocate, rationalize, etc. cut feature. I want more, not less. I want quality and quantity and Beth is capable of both. It depends on how much Beth want to appeal to a wider audience, not their game making limitations IMO.

In order to add spell making in a timely fashion, though, they would have to "cut" the dynamic magic system. Yes, spell making was cut in the first place, but it's not like they still intend to give us the same simple "point and fire" magic of the past. There's a new level of complexity to using each spell now, and spell making would have to be built around that as well. They aren't cutting something for nothing. Which was how it felt with a lot of things lost moving from Morrowind to Oblivion.

Sorry, but there's no reason that cutting spell-making has the game appeal to a wider audience. The game is totally playable without even knowing it exists in the game.

Also, do you have any understanding of the difficulties of game development? It's an incredibly complex process, and that's before you even delve into the wonderful world of time constraints or media storage limits. Seemingly "Simple" Things like a Sonic The Hedgehog remake, or a Crash Bandicoot Remake on Cryengine, have taken nearly a decade to create (And in the former's case, was shutdown by lolSEGA 8years in). And these don't even ~add~ anything.


~wanting~ everything is fine, but ~expecting~ everything is immature and, rather annoying, especially if you haven't even the most basic knowledge of just how complex the industry is.

I've already created spells for Skyrim and they work just fine like *The_ugly_guy_at_the_Store's lovemaking*.

Unless they come up with a leveling system for spells, a lot of people are going to be disappointed and annoyed. It's unlikely that they'll add thousands of different "vanilla" spells that you can buy in-game, so most people are going to be stuck with weak spells until they can learn higher-tier ones. That's a problem if your character is purely magic (melee characters only need to focus on a few weapons while magic characters usually have to focus on all 5 schools to be effective).

Allowing characters to combine and dual-wield their spells could make up for that, but it's still something that players are going to worry about. It's also going to be a little difficult (or so I think) to find the right spells for the right situations. In Morrowind, there were times when I wanted an AoE spell that covered a specific area.. but the only spells I could find were non-AoE, too large or too small. Sure, I could just be nitpicking, but if that's how I want to RP, so be it.

That's the first, truly legitimate argument I've seen, in terms of mechanical function. Definitely, so many of the Vanilla spells in Morrowind and Oblivion, were full of svck and failure.

But I will point out one thing, we are no longer Hard-capped on Magicka the same way.

you are completely missing the point in that story. We now have and eye thing to help us with sneaking anddddd something close to DRAGON MOUNTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol


back to topic. i really hope there is spell making (it looks pretty damn close to confirmed) because for the longest time i have wated to be a total mage but i could never make myself do it. but now it seems as if it will be more fluid

Er, Todd's whole 'spreadsheety' thing was directed to casuals and non RPG gamers, since I've never seen one vet, ever say anything like that before. Obvious band wagon fan boys are annoying, and immature. Their the ones saying "If I didnt use it, then neither will you". While we are for things whether we personally used them or not.

I just don't want to rely upon Bethesda making all the spells.

How can I trust that the devs have the same casting preferences as me? Most of their spells really need to be tweaked heavily for my style.

Generalization is fun!

Who else was it directed to? Never seen anyone say that about spell creation until Todd did. then when they cant refute, they just change the subject, insult, or do whatever the hell your doing. Link me to the numerous thread about how terrible spell creation was before Todd said that.

If Todd came out tomorrow and said that they were adding attributes and skills, the same people against it would then be for it. Its called fanboyism.