When the game fails, you can look back at the posts by those of use who have been pointing out the flaws from the beginning.

Yeah and I love your cute little reply, because I love how you blindly defend the game, w/o playing it yourself.

I'm waiting until the 5th thread to vote.

I can give you examples on how much fun i continue to have with it...

What i said in the other third thread

So I'm not allowed to look forward to games? Since when has any brilliant game been completely flawless? Even classics like Ocarina of Time has irritating flaws, does that mean its a bad game? No, but this whole "I'm not buying Skyrim coz it's being streamlined" attitude is getting old. Mass Effect 2 was heavily streamlined from the first game but it was, imo, a vastly superior game, granted there are a few changes I'm not happy with but I still believe it will be a far better game than Oblivion was, and I loved Oblivion.

Stop being so cynical and give the game a chance before you condemn it a a "Dumbed-down pile of garbage".

Yeah I know but people think it's like MW2 or Halo, Pete said that they regen slowly, unless he thinks halo shield is slow, I'm not too worried.

Cool story bro, but that had nothing to do with my post in any context.

And lol@you saying Skyrim will fail. LOL.

:rofl:

So in Oblivion we had, touch, self, and target as delivery methods for our spells, in skyrim we have quite a bit more.

All they have to do is give every delivery method more parameters and limit other ones more. (no 100ft range on a stream spell, like flamethrower) i can see chain lightning having a parameter for how many people it will hit, how much magicka it will drain and so on. i really don't see a problem with it.

Think about this, take chain lightning, what happens if you add fire to it? Fires special effect causes it to linger on the environment/burn enemies over time. Lightning though can refract off surfaces, so what happens to fire then? Does it create small fires where the lightning bounces? Or does the lightning not bounce and do a similar effect like fire (extra programming since it doesn't normally do that). What happens if you throw ice in? One of the ice effects is ice spikes, so will these be on fire or electrocuted, will the fire effect explode on contact, even though lightning and frost don't normally do that?

Then what happens when you put them in both hands, will perks affect the duration/strength? If so then it could mess up a spell you make. Can we alter how long fire lasts, or how many people electricity can jump between, or how much frost slows... can you see where I'm going with this?

Good Magic in varies of the look, feel and act
- Bioshock Series (Bioshock 2 had some varies of the same spell and I belive Todd said they got inspired by it)
- Dark Messiah of might and magic
- Gothic Series
- Risen (to few though)

Bad Magic in varies of the look, feel and act
- Oblivion

the way i was thinking was you had to select a spell, like chain lightning, to be a core spell. Once you had your core spell you can change things about it such as the number of people it jumps between, magicka drain, and other effects (absorb health/magicka, burden,frenzy ect.) some could be incompatible, or you could just tint the lightning more on the red side the more fire effects you had and just make it light people on fire in addition to the magicka drain, nothing too fancy.

Make it so combining two core spells, such as chain-lightning and fire had some kind of penalty so we don't have joat spells, like you only receive perk benefits from the core spell, so your fire perks won't effect the fire power of your fire chain lightning, or magicka cost increase or a much shorter duration, lower max damage and such.

You could make perks that increase damage or duration of spells just make the spell cost less magicka when you make it example:
you have no perks, you make a fireball spell that does 25dmg and 5dmg per second for 10 seconds, costs 50 magicka, with a perks that increases duration of your fire spells it would only cost 45 magicka, becuase the perk is filling in for some of that increased duration. And what is the problem with increasing the power/duration of existing custom spells? I don't see how having the duration of my Dots, that i love so much, being a bad thing.

If you add an illusion effect to a fire spell all they have to do is tint it green a bit, same for ice spikes.

That'd make perfect sense , but people are too short-sighted to see that Skyrim COULD have an excellent spell-making system without limiting the magic system .
They keep saying , they're happy with the new magic system and that axing spell-making is worth it , when they have no connection what so ever .
The devs can keep the new magic system AND spell-making , they just chose not to "waste" their time on that particular feature many of us loved and enjoyed for over 15 years ....

It's not like you couldn't just wait an hour after a fight to regain your health again.

And as for the spellmaking, I'd rather it be in, but it doesn't really pertain to my main playing style so personally I don't mind all that much. If you really liked it, you have the option of spending 60 bucks at Chipotle instead. :/

I don't think it would be all too hard to have chain lightning have a small splash of fire with every hit, and ice spikes having small splashes of blue fire. (aesthetic of course, when using a lightning/fire spell)

Does this really need more than 1 thread?

I'm a huge fan of TES since Morrowind, and i voted 'I'm fine ether way, and I think unnecessary features such as this should be removed'. Why? Because i found making your own spells took the magic out of magic~ It made it seem less magical and less exciting... Now that it has been removed, and the only way you can get spells is via tomes or buying them, and this brings magic back to life~ Also it brings back the magic with Enchanting items aswell~ It will make finding that crappy amulet ect with stats you found useless in Oblivion/Morrowind ect more exciting, as you can break it down and use it to enchant your equiptment, instead of getting all spreadsheety and technical with an enchanting menu...... This also revives dungeon exploring!

At first i was upset, but when i thought about it, it makes alot of sense and im glad they did this =) a step in the right direction Bethesda!

Or pray to god on the 27nth of Ramadan that some really talented modders will be able to restore this TES signature feature and do so in style.....

Let me ask you all. What specific spells are the essential spells you want to create?

I brought up the UESP wiki page for usefull spells. Offensive Spells.

OFFENSIVE SPELLS

• Finish Him!

Basicly a paralyze and attack with bound dagger, you could dualwield theese 2 with ease, you would lose the 100 fortify blade part tho.

• Headshot

Fortifies your marksman and agility to do more bow damage, this is essentially impossible in skyrim either way.

• Hidden Knife

Damage on touch and invisability, could dualwield theese or atleast turn invisible right after you done spraying damage.

• Predator

Basicly exploits fortify magica, with the same effect as last one, only if you use this your magica will never run out.

• Provoke

Weakness to fire... only high magnitude for shurt duration. Probably wont be this ultra cheap version of it in skyrim.

• Righteous Blow

Damage and turn undead, dualwield....

• Shape of the Hunter

Summon a monster and invisability, dualwield. Really, wont bother you that u cant use a sword while being invisable.

• Slaughterhouse

Area spell that drains health and weakness to magic to be followed up by an area damage spell for cheap kills.

• Sleep Powder

Drain fatigue and invisability (anyone else seeing invisability all over the place) knocks a target unconcious to make him easy prey.

• Soul Snatch

Drain health for a cost effective kill plus soul trap, could be raccomplished by simply soul trapping and killing in whatever way u want.

• Static Burst

Paralyze and damage, simply paralyze then do damage, you dont even have to change equiped spell if you use both hands.

• Uppercut

Same only on touch

• Vampiric Trance

Calm and absorb health, basicly taking advantage of calm spell to make target oblivious to the fact you're stealing its health.


I find most of theese "Usefull Spells" to either be cheaper ways of doing damage then normally or ways of doing damage while not risking taking any yourself. Some of theese practicly break the game if you wouldn't run out of magica, but theres even 1 that prevents you from that! Others are fine, anyways most of theese could be possible by dualwielding as they rarely combine more then 2 spell effects

DEFENSIVE SPELLS

• Hide in Plain Sight

Drain speed, enemy can't see you if their speed is 0. One the edge of thinking this is an abuse... and speed isn't even in skyrim

• Shroud/Amnesia

Makes enemies non hostile and makes you invisable so you can sneak attack again. Possible to do this by using command and invisability dualwielded...

• Spell of the Spelunker

Light Detect life and invisability... can combine 2 out of 3, light might be with a set duration so use that before changing to detect life...

• Recuperate

Invisability and heal, impossible in skyrim probably... if casting heal still makes you visable.

Still invisability being the main contributor. There is also alot of other spells that fortify your skills for few seconds which i will not adress.


I don't know, most of theese seem possible to recreate to some degree without spell making, all spell making would do in most cases is save you from using 2 hands or swaping spell. So it's really a question of convieniance. Anyone wanna show me a specific spell that really needs spell making and is key to your gameplay. Might be one i listed allready just give a reason why it/they are so important.

How about this Mank, do you realize the folly in someone trying to show you the usefulness in spellmaking to them where you see none?

Yeah it's unbelievably weird , almost an oxymoron....

Well that svcks. Spell-making was one of my favorite parts of Morrowind and the only reason I joined the Mages' guild in Oblivion. Pardon my ignorance but there will still be item enchanting right?

yes enchanting which did the same thing for items spellmaking did for players, was the source of 100% chameleon etc etc all those exploits and broken systems in it?? yeah Enchanting is stll in AND its a skill again, ho the Irony/

... I havent said there's no use in spell making. That was mainly directed at people who over react and say i wont buy the game. I was pointing out the "useful spells" most of the time could be done anyways without spellmaking.

And I orignaly intended just to ask and not include that list, realising that that probably would have given me better results.... I was actually surprised looking back at that page how practicly everyone of those spells included invisability.

OR simply Tell me how a Fireball + Invisability spell would work. You turn invisable charge fireball, release and poof visable again as you performed an action? Why is that spell superior to an invisability spell and a Fireball seperate? Flamethrower Invisability? You turn visable the instant you use it.

Paralyze, this could work, definitly. But it also work if you paralyze with one hand and Damage Spell in other, or even you can paralyze with one hand then use hotkey menu and damage with the same hand.


On self effects Heal/Shield/Light/Fortify might be spells you want to combine but most other aren't truely useful to combine other then the fact it simply saves you trouble of keeping changing spells...


This mainly seem like a problem if you are a spellsword taking up 1 hand with a weapon leaving only one open for a defensive/offensive spell and dont want to go through trouble of changing them.

I simply see what we have gained to compleatly outweight whatever spellmaking would have brought to the table. Also I have given reasons earlier on why just slapping spellmaking from oblivion on skyrim will have problems and limitations. Mainly being "Flamethrower-Chainlightning-Frostrune-Healing-boundaxe Spell's" animation.