Let's complain about everything that's optional!!!! VATS, (if it's there), fast travel, and now spell scrolls.. How about you just sell spell scrolls for money?! Since I'm usually an Argonian, why don't I complain about quests that give you water breathing jewelry and spell scrolls when you finish them? :facepalm:

No need for penalties even. Scrolls are *one time use* ffs, and not easily obtained. Although I don't take advantage of exploits, the duplicating exploit should be fixed naturally so that scrolls are guaranteed to work only one time.

Scrolls are magical imbuned parchment a Mage would make for his own personal use or to sell to some layman who can't use magic. Their a staple in any fantasy game. I loved scroll enchanting in MW! I would make scrolls that cast fire on me, so my magic absorption character could regain his mana. Did the same thing in OB, though I had to use a mod. Scrolls have always been focus in my character, I would hate if they were removed.
Then again I would probally just add them back in myself.

Yes, i want them back.

Saying that scrolls destroy role playing is kind of harsh imo. The scrolls don't let someone become an instant master, they give you one strong spell, to use only once. It does not break the game. It's fun to have just one shot at one powerful spell. Scrolls are not that important, and you certainly do not become godlike when using one. In my opinion it just gives the world and strategie in it even more depth.

Yeah, the crazy lady who wanted you to kill everyone sent you after some folks who personally snubbed the guild in a province with shaky Imperial control. They did not, however, send you down to the local spell/potion/enchantment shops to rough up customers and bust the product, right? It seems these sorts of activities would be even less common in a more tightly controlled territory, such as Cyrodiil. The only reason they were able to get away with in Morrowind was because all these people you were supposed to kill were off in the middle of [censored] nowhere. Nobody'd know, and nobdy'd care.

The Guild takes care of it's own, no? MOst guild quests didn't even have you working for boring peasant A and their oh-so-interesting rat infestation. You were helping other Guild members. Collecting ingredients for research, hunting down rare artifacts, confronting enemies of the guild. Almost nothing you, as a member, were doing had any direct profit gain for the Guild. All the profit was being made in background, through the sale of their products.

I guess if they have the money to purchase a scroll that imbues them with Detect Life every single night, all night long, then yeah. I seriously doubt scrolls of that magnitude will be cheap or easy to come by. And as you said, the Mages Guild would have less incentive to offer a wide variety of those types of scrolls. Singular wizards would not have the means or abilities to produce them on such a large scale as to make it a legitimate substitute. And privately owned businesses would find it difficult to expand (largely due to the Guild's influence) and so their wares would be restricted to certain markets.

I imagine you aren't casting spells from a tome and that the words within a spell book are different than the enchanted runes inscribed onto a spell scroll.

And that sounds like a totally interesting dynamic that I'd like to explore further. Actual competition and politics. The Guild, in an effort to re-exert their control drums up local pejudice against the lizard-folk and cultures that once lived together in a moderately stable situation now clash. You seem to want to have the Guild be the only established magic users in a world that permeates magic. This is what makes no sense to me.

You are acting as though any scrolls equals every scroll imaginable. Only exceptionally powerful enchanters would have the abilities to imbue paper with such power. The difficulty involved in their creation would be enough to limit their production on it's own (For example, I only found a handful of Windwalker scrolls throughout Morrowind, and I was apparently the only dude bothering to dig into 90 percent of the ruins/caves/dungeons around there). And all that said, the existence of scrolls does not mean the Mages Guild just goes, "Ah, [censored] it! We tried!" They'll still try to control the markets both through unfair practice (removing competitors, playing politics, etc) and literally by controlling which scrolls they offer to the public.

Do you even read scrolls? You cast them, I don't know if that involves reading. You don't read the enchanted runes on your enchanted sword, I imagine enchanted paper is similar. It doesn't require literacy.

So your saying that only mages should be allowed to use enchanted items in generally because there the only ones in nirn who can properly decrypt runes to use there effects like the effect of the battle axe of the dynamo?

I am so enourmously fed up with people with stunted imagination who petition to remove Every Single Little Thing that makes elder scrolls unique and freeform.

Ok, I get it. Some people want a linear game in wich you cannot deviate from a pre-set path and in wich the developers intentionally limit how much you can play around with the mechanics.

Fine.

Please, go play a shooter and leave elder scrolls alone.

Spell scrolls are for people who like to use some form of magic but don't like to actually cast it.
So these people should pay out the [censored]
It wasn't an issue, paying loads of gold for a 1 use spell, you'd be lucky to kill one enemy, that hardly makes them a master wizard.

But I think the cost for these scrolls should raise, those incredibly powerful scrolls are still pretty cheap...

You know, if the King has enough high level enchanters, and manages to slay enough daedra for the grand souls required to imbue 20,000 scrolls of Windwalker, then I guess he deserves to take cities on the other side of the country by surprise, if they havent already pre-emptively beaten down his drawbridge while he is busy in his scriptorium lashing a whip at 100 very tired enchanters.

Most proficient mages were only able to teleport themselves, so I find it a stretch to assume an enchanter would be able to make a scroll that teleported someone or something else. If it was made plausible and consistent with lore however, I see no reason why one, or several, people could not teleport minotaurs into town during a coronation, sounds like an interesting story device, you know, for roleplaying... Though I guess if teleportation were so comonplace, then the emperor's wizard, or even the emperor himself, would just teleport said minotaurs to the top of Dive Rock.

Command Humanoid, when cast by a master illusionist, typically lasts for a few minutes at most. Its feasible that an expert illusionist and enchanter may make a powerfull command humanoid scroll that lasts long enough for an assasination, though it would take a particularly callous mage to leave such a scroll laying about to be used for such nefarious ends. Presumably most apprentices would actually take several lesons in ethics of Magicka, that is if their not running around performing cantrips for peasants, which would give them some grounding in the ethics of when and why one would create a scroll, or staff, or potion, or any other enchanted device, that would allow one control over another sentient being. Though I guess someone like Mannimarco would have no qualm in doing such things, if he felt the need to use silly illusion tricks instead of just controlling dead bodies. Overall It would make for a good plot to track down and find the perpertrator.

People using charm spells on others for "unsanitary acts" sounds more in the relm of love potions, which is probably rather common, though charm spells do wear off after time, and nothing in a charm spell makes you forget what actually happened while you were charmed. I suppose some fools might try it, but a court room and a expert mage giving evidence against them would have them facing prison for charges akin to [censored].

Terorists using fireball scrolls... probably, but then they will use whatever they can, and I think it likely that oil and a flaming arrow would likely do the job cheaper that purchasing a prepared scroll for the job. Of course if you could steal the scroll, why wouldn't they use the scroll.

As for damage inteligence spells, as a destruction spell it is automatically recognised as an act of assault. Its not hard to image that town guards if not most persons are taught to recognise destruction spells in such a magic rich world. Especially given the speed with which guards and civilians react to hostile spells being thrown at them. If you managed somehow to acquire a scroll that reduced a persons intelligence to the level of a mudcrab, and were not seen using it, it likely that you could get away with such a rort. Untill someone else notices that farmer joe is drooling and making grunting noises in the corner, in which event I'm sure they would take him to the local curch to be healed, and the authorities would want to reverse any recent "business transactions" that he had conducted whils being mentally ill.

So you see, whilst you claim you want Nirn to continue to be a world rich with magicka, you dont seem to recognise roleplaying opportunities in such a world. So what if scrolls can be made, they do not replace mages, they simply suplement them. Scrolls consume resources to make, and they should not be cheap.
Even were it to be the case that scrolls were cheap and widely used (which i hope they are not, expensive and moderately powerful would provide a more interesting world in my opinion) the world would need to have laws and means to minimise chaos reguardless, so it only enhances the posibilities for role play by those with imagination.

The only thing I used 'em for was to duplicate on my xbox lol.

Since spell scrolls are written in daedric or aldermis or some other obscure language, it should be a task to learn the language first before you can read the scrolls at least. I vote to keep them since they are a part of lore. You just have to know the language in which they are written. What do you think of that idea?

Are you even supposed to be reading them? I always thought the scrolls were just kind of imbued with the property of the spell.

Is there any definitive answer for this?

Having spell scrolls operate as some kind of one-shot can of insta-fireball isn't the way to go, I think. Spell scrolls should teach you the spell, if you have the Magicka/Intelligence to cast it.

That would be cool. It would kind of svck when my idiot Nord/Orc realized the Flamestorm Scroll he just picked up, or the Scroll of Icarian Flight, is completely useless to him...but it would make an awful lot of sense.

Plus said Nord/Orc could just go sell the scroll and use the money to buy some mutton or something nice and shiny to look at.

Ooohhhhh......

SHINY

I assumed you were told the "key phrase" you need to repeat to activate a scroll either at purchase... you don't need to be literate at all to speak a phrase.
As for actuall Player characterseven the most Magicka inept fighter starts an elder scrolls game with 5 skill points in each spell skill, they are adventurers, not farmers.

That would work if a scroll was a set of instructions on how to cast the spell, but it isn't its a piece of parchment on which the essence of a spell effect is imbued, so that it can be activated at a later point.

What your thinking of is more like the spell tomes that were added to oblivion as a DLC pack. It takes more than one piece of paper to explain how to conjure a ball of fire from the Aether, it takes a whole tome. Think of it this way, your not just learning a specific spell, but also how to acess that particular manifestation of magicka, with a level of depth that allows you as a mage to apply the effect to future spells you create.

Wow that is one long sentence! I think all parts of the game should be accessible to all characters Mage, thief or warrior. It's just a case of Beth making it so that your certain skills get used to achieve it. Invisability, levitating, climbing, brute force, logic (puzzles).

As for the scrolls, I don't think they are doing much harm. They are just giving the none magic characters a bit of magic when needed. I suppose you could go a little more in depth such as the learning how to understand the scrolls and languages as mentioned above, I like that idea.

I only want utility scrolls to be available, no more 1000000 damage spell scroll for warriors

anyway I just did not see the point behind the 5 frost damage scrolls in oblivion! so instead of lame useless scrolls we keep nice utility scrolls that are useful to all, and keep the other spells away from magic-challenged characters.

What about scrolls you stole or the occasional one in random loot? How did you learn the key phrase for them?

I like the idea of scrolls teaching you spells, then disappearing for good. We could eliminate the separate "buy spells" menu and just add it into the normal item shopping. We could also put rare and special scrolls giving you really cool powers hidden in dungeons and stuff.

If they don't do that they should let us create our own scrolls. Warriors don't need to use them if they don't want to, taking them out would be pointless because they could just as easily go buy a staff. It would be a nice addition to make a 1 time scroll for a special occasion.

I don't see them changing from the way they, and Classic Fantasy RPG games in general, have been doing it thus far. Which is scrolls are one time use.

I wouldn't mind being able to produce scrolls....I guess...but I don't see the point. If you can produce a scroll you can cast the spell without a scroll. They'd have to put a limit on it too so one couldn't just create 5,000 scrolls to sell.

A careful consideration of the games design would show that the game doesn't pigeon hole a character's abilities the way a game like D&D does.

Every one in the world has the potential to excel in any field. Just because you call yourself a warrior doesn't automatically exclude you from stabbing some one in the back or casting a spell from a scroll. Your dedication to the use of skills is the limiting factor.

Scroll spells are designed as storage devices for spell power in the same way a wand, staff, or sword is. The very nature of magic in this universe allows for it's use by all. Sure there are those who master these spells, and others who eschew them for more brutal or artistic endeavors. Still if a powerful mage was to scribble the formula to a strong spell on a sheet of vellum and then some one with only the basic ability to use a spell were to use it's power, he should expect that the spell that was stored on that scroll would work as the original caster intended.

I personally sell any scrolls I find. I do this because for the most part they are all but useless. Durations are feeble, effects are weak, or they don't make my style of play any easier.

If the system of long distance travel is made to resemble the system used in morrowind, then mark and recall scrolls would be more valuable to me. If the durations of summoning spells was more than a minute or so I might consider those to be useful. Healing and charm spells of low level are plenty strong enough for what I use them for.

Instead of looking at scrolls as a cheesy way for a player who doesn't focus on spells to get over on the game, maybe altering ones perception and think of magic as a gift from the gods that all men and mer might enjoy and profit from.

Well in many games, unless you passed a check to itentify the item, you didn't know what its magical enchantment was. With scrolls, you could not cast them untill you either idenified them yourself or had them identified by an expert. They could get aroud this by the mere fact that player characters are not commoners, and hence know basic aldmeris or even daedric, but I would not be opposed to requiring identification of looted scrolls prior to use.

And what your talking about was included in oblivion in the spell tomes DLC. instructions on how to cast a spell are not in and of themselves magical, there is no reasn that an instruction manual should need to evaporate after being read.

As they were implemented in Oblivion, scrolls were pretty meh. Unlock was good in a jam, but the attack spells were usually somewhat weak. Given that enemies were usually more damage absorbent than the leading brand, it wasn't typically worth the effort to pop open your inventory screen. If they were quite powerful, quite rare, and quite expensive, then they could serve as an effective get out of jail free card, but otherwise they're lightweight, decently valuable loot items.

Spell scrolls, no.

But there should be enchanted artifacts that use charges and work like spell scrolls. It would allow non magical characters to use certain magical effects, but only by paying a lot for the artifacts and paying to keep them charged.

I will say, that if they gave us a trait system as in Daggerfall, I wouldn't be opposed to an Aldmeris/Daedric Literacy trait that would be required to decipher found scrolls. Your alternatives being a service provided by the Mages Guild/Spell Shop to translate them for you, or simply being skilled enough in whatever magic school the scroll's enchantment falls under.