Agreed. Spellmaking is just limiting the amount of unique spells that can be crammed in this game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=us9ox2pMWzw&lc

How?

Sure, it might be that everything in life can be described mathematically, but that does not mean that everything boils down to math. You're just using math as words to describe what's happening, but there is more than just math that can be used as well.

Classic example: Throw a frisbee. Ask a physicist to describe what the frisbee is doing, and he can. He'll give equations and variables and lay it all out mathematically. The behavior of the frisbee can be described with math. Now ask a kid. The child is just going to tell you what s/he sees, a disk floating through the air. They don't use the math.

Now ask a dog. The dog doesn't even know what math is, but I can guaran-damn-tee you that the dog can still figure out where that frisbee is going to be, catch it, and bring it back. Not everything in life is math, and you certainly don't have to use it.

Magic strikes me as the child's version, or the dog's version, of life. It just works the way it works. You don't need to be able to type in a number to actually dial in the spell strength that you want. That seems very gamey and artificial, and less mystical and unpredictable. I like it better where if I want some "strong" fire I do this, but if I want "weaker" fire I do that. I know more or less what's going to happen, but not exactly. The whole idea of "fire spell level 7" is just so... dorkish.

Fantasy novels, good ones, never describe their magic in terms of numbers. They describe it in terms of emotions, heat of the moment situations, and spontaneous reactions that produce incredible, unpredictable, and sometimes outright surprising results. This is the kind of magic I would prefer to see.

I don't want my hero wizard going back to the magic excel computer to pre-create the next level fire spell with a duration of x+1 seconds and 3 extra damage. No.

Sure. I recognized in my post that other people might have loved spellmaking, and again, I completely respect that. My vote is not meant to reflect what is best for the entire community; it merely indicates what I personally want for me myself. Spellmaking detracted from my experience. I'm sad for the people who liked it - but for me, I'm actively glad it's gone.

Also, great post Varus. I was going to say something similar but simpler: just because things can be described with math does not mean that spreadsheets are the most fun way to do everything. So I'll say that anyway, but I still liked your post better!

but how would it detract if you didnt even use it? Is like saying Alchemy detracted from my experience even though I didnt use it.

No Spellmaking = Assinine

See post #99.

? So how does something thats totally optional detract form your experience, especially since you didnt have to use it? Post 99 didnt address this.

Wow, we're pretty split on this.

It can detract from your experience by being there without you using it because some factors in the game are based upon you using it.
So, perhaps a spell wouldn't make it for the game because it didn't work with Spell Making, for instance.

At least that is what I think they are trying to say here.

Comparing it to stealth might not have been the best though, as stealth is a more used mechanism and also a more available one, so it's harder to avoid using it.

And that has nothing to do with spell creation, but on Beth not making premade spells correctly, not to mention thats not why we want spell creation. Ill use enchantng as an example, somthing tht was just as "speadsheety" as SC.

So yeah, there's no reason to get rid of it, other than to dumb down the game for people that didn't understand it.

Yes and it all basically comes down to this:

Some people think they just removed it without changing anything else to make up for it.
Others assume that they removed it to make room for a better system (charging spells as you go, more balance etc...).

Bottom line is that we all have to wait for the game to come out before we can really start whining about everything they changed.

A collection of unreliable details doesn't give you any useful information about the game, no point making a fuss about it.

To put it simply, spellmaking forces me to choose between being a subpar mage or using a tedious spellmaking interface.
If I don't like spellmaking, I have to give up my potential.
If I want to realize my potential, I have to use the tedious interface.
Either way, I am put in an unhappy position.
That is why spellmaking makes me unhappy.
I can't make it simpler than that.

You can apply this to any so-called "optional" feature. Even if you choose not to use it, you are giving something up to do so. Some people prefer to be relieved of making that unpleasant choice.

Usually I like choices. In this case, I, for me, for my game that I play by myself, will prefer to not have that extra option to fill me with regrets about what I'm missing.

You speak for me also in this matter.

And spreadsheaty versus mystical is largely a matter of one's imagination application. I considered that, as a master of the arts, I was taking spells and artistically weaving them together in a way that the average mage lacked the skill to do, intensifying heat and cold, causing shock to paralyze in a way that the designers should have implemented but didn't, mingling a spell of calm enchantment into a spell of invisibility to keep the fool at my side from rushing to his death against a gathering of Xivalai.

Spell making allowed me to be a truly extraordinary mage, and to truly FEEL like one.

Dont like it, dont use it. Your basically saying I had to use it, but I didnt understand it. Because there was nothing tedious about making spells. Spell creation was just as tedious as enchanting, so by your logic, we should get rid of that as well.

If you found SC that tedious, PM me and Ill help you out.

For that matter anyone that found SC too "Spreadsheety", hit me up and Ill make it as plain as day.


the biggest problem was level scaling.

No offense, but spell-making was stupidly easy.

A few instant damage spells of weak quality and a weakness to magic 100% for a few seconds and stuff died. Throw in a soul trap for the lulz. The set-up worked due to spell weakness stacked.

This is exactly the thing. You seem to assume that anyone supporting the change didn't use the system. I did.

I used the spell making system as much as anybody, and playing as a mage is my favorite type of character. It's not that I didn't use it, it's that I don't like it. The system is awkward, artificial, and way too precise. I want spellcraft to be more unpredictable, more dangerous, more organic, more dynamic. I want more emotion in it, more spontaneous decisions to do things. I don't like the pre-set, pre-planned nature of spells in Oblivion.

That's not magical. I used the system, I used it a lot. It svcked.

Very well said

So dont use it. People that did like it, will. Everynes happy. Magic is a science that must be practiced and applied to advance in it. Nothing represents that better than the Altar. It really comes down to the dont like it, dont use it stance.

And you people who seem to be against spell making aren't complaining about Enchanting Why?

That's nonsense. I want to use it, I just don't want it to be so artificial. I want them to change it, to make it better, to fix it. You are telling me to abandon something that I want to use but think needs to be fixed? No, I would prefer to fix it. Bethesda agrees.



Because we don't know how it's going to look. I hated it in Oblivion even worse than spellmaking. It was worthless. According to what I know so far, it's going to be different in Skyrim, but I have no idea how. So... what exactly should I complain about?

Your the one that wants it out, at least thats what you said, not me. I think it should be expanded on, it doesnt need to be "fixed" though. There's nothing wrong with it. Beth does what makes money an thats cutting stuff to appeal to newbs.

No, I said fixed, not out. I want it to be made more organic, dynamic, and less artificial, clunky, and mechanical. I want a better system. Just because they took away the ability to stack 65 effects into one spell doesn't mean the system is worse. Just because you can't predict and set numerically the power and effect of every "spell" you create doesn't mean the system is worse.


According to you.


Making stuff up?

...and over half the people who have voted on the poll. Do not make it sound like Xarnac is alone, because that is far from being the case.