First state why we would be against enchanting. I see no reason at all (since I don't buy that "spreadsheet" argument. It has the same limits the new spell combining system has. I believe that it will work well, especially since it's a skill, which makes sense.

1. At first you wanted it out.

2. No there was nothing wrong with it, thats why nobody complained about it until they started reciting Todd.

3. No thats how you make money, placating newbs and the action crowd.

That's not the point. Some people think it was broken and needs fixed, others don't. Bethesda does. What exactly are we arguing about here? Just because I don't like it and you do doesn't mean you are right. Doesn't mean I'm right either, but at least the devs tend to agree more with me than not.

And you forgot to mention that the new spells ACTUALLY look good, unlike oblivions and morrowind's, and yes that is very important. If you want truly limitless possibilities without the television to make it look good (AKA using your imagination) then PnP is for you. Everything about skyrim is meant to look good, magic will look like magic, and yes I like that a heck of a lot.

I said that exactly nowhere. Quote me if you're so sure.


There's no way you can state this like it's some sort of fact. I don't like the system and I think there's something very really wrong with it. You can't "prove" me wrong no matter how much hate you spew at me. It's my opinion. Yours happens to be that the system is fine. We disagree. Bethesda, however, is siding more with me than with you.


This is just childish. What exactly makes somebody a newb? Their intelligence? Problem solving skill? How well they can sing? Whether or not they like spreadsheets? You're just slinging stupid insults out there with nothing to back them up.

Do you think that every game that comes out is less complex than the previous one? I'm pretty sure that can't be it, because games have been steadily getting deeper and deeper since, well, pong.

Uhm.. That's the whole point. It was too easy.

It was a "fail-safe" system where you could just throw in a lot of numbers and there you have it, the mightiest spell in the whole world - no thinking, no attempting and failing, just throwing in the numbers.
It needed fixing, Bethesda didn't find a good fix, Bethesda threw it away. Rather simple really - just as simple as spell-making was!

1. You said you didnt want SC in on another , previous thread and stated no reason why.

2. It is a fact, link to where you had problems with spell creation before Skyrim was announced

3. That's not childish, what make them a newb is if they see things that make them think and say, No, Id rather just play a mindless action game. A lot of people around here wish Skyrim would be a mindless action game. Todd said they got rid of birth signs for newbs, so the newb defense is totally true.

Well they didn't throw it away exactly, they created a viable alternative which essentially does the same thing, but does it better.

and this doesnt work with Spell making....why?

My first question I asked, because people are like yay woot woot SC is gone excellent I hated it.....but they aren't complaining about Enchanting.....which uses the same interface and does the -exact- same thing except its for weapons....so the who clunky interface, the whole OP argument, the whole stacking spells still apply....but no one is complaining about Enchanting.......and then theres you sayings its new and improved in Skyrim....but when I say why not do the same for SC? I'm told (not by you...yet) no magick is actually magick now the old version was (negetive reason here) and now skyrim is doing it better


and I go

:teehee: wtf.

Well I can't say it's the same interface or what, enchanting would work with spell crafting and will work without it, beyond that we have absolutely no information about enchanting except that it's a skill, until we get more information I cannot say enchanting is like spell crafting and I most certainly can not hate it.

Could you point me to where Todd said they got rid of birth signs for newbs?
Birth Signs was removed for the same reason as classes, so that instead of picking who you are at the beginning of the game, you evolve your character the way you want to, as it always should have been in RPGs.

todd said they didnt want players ruining their build with birthsigns. only a newb that didnt take the time to read could have ruined their build with a birthsign, not to mention you cant even really ruin a build with a birthsign. we were not born in that prison. this is an RPG, not a action game.

Hold on im looking for the article where he says that

All I have to say to this is LOL!
have you ever heard about the concept of "changing your mind"?

You choose The Apprentice (100% weakness to magic, fortify magicka by 100) because you want to be a spell caster with lots of magicka and you plan on not being hit much because of your range with the spells. But then after playing a bit, you decide that this was not really that fun, and melee looks so much more fun. But ouch, you can't go melee, as then you would suffer greatly against mage-opponents because of your weakness to magic!


- Thank you for feeding me with reasons to remove birth signs! You were not born in the prison, so you can't really "pick" your birth sign.


- actually, it's an Action-RPG.

How is anyone supposed to even talk to you?

1. You are trying to hold me to words that I didn't even say, and you can't find anywhere.

2. You are trying to tell me what my own opinion is, and saying that I can't possibly have an opinion unless I posted it somewhere recently.

3. Are you trying to define a "newb" as someone who can't think? Let me ask you, do you think I'm a "newb?" If so, what are you basing it on, exactly?
Are you trying to argue that reading the description of something before you use it allows you to fully understand and appreciate how it will be used? If so, then you are talking about a very simple game. And I seem to gather that you dont' like games that are so simple.

You're impossible.

getting really tired of this ncr vs legion deba..... I mean spellmaking, good its gone/ we want it back debate. I was all for it then i remebered we got two arms for duel weild spells now, in sense making a spell. The guy has stated that echanting is still gonna be in it, cause it would be annoying not to have a flaming sword (I mean lit like) Unlike the supposed game breaking spellmaking echant is limited to the soul gem and other certain elements. They should bring out a new section for skyrim. "yay or nah" In which people argue about something going or not so it makes up for a ton of people browers the forum and threads (Forum logic) Don't see a ton of "omg thank god its gone it was such a noob thing" replied by "no its awesome! I want it back!/you svck! I won't buy/play/ the game if it gonna be like this."
Why have a brought this rant up? Because I want spellmaking topic aka flame wars to go to bed. *reads post above* They got rid of birthsigns? FLAME WAR!!!! :flamethrower:
:banghead:

Gotta love the poll results at this moment^^ 70 for, 70 against. ;D

And The Thinker... lol

They could turn ES into a simple action game and there would be someone to defend it.

OP, you shame yourself and your family.

Yes, I'm very glad that people have been able to come to understand the two sides (since I first started the debate *pats self on back*)

Let's not start pointing fingers at each other now, eh?

This topic was created to discuss the removal of Spell Making, not the OPs family.

I'd like it to stay.Unless of course they simply make the standard spell casting/combining good enough to not need it.Hopefully they'll keep enchanting in though,and maybe un-castrate it.

Well the last page moved onto to birthsigns being silly so maybe this is a topic that rolls onto the next topic flame war after 8 pages? Oh and the finger should insense be the first person who posted dislike ffor tes having spell making in the game, when the forums for tes first came out.

....you did not make this thread to "see the two sides" what you advocated is apparent in the title and all it does is get a kneejerk response.......its only the fact that not everyone is flammable on these forums of which the thread didnt go down in a buring fury.

and Update, I cannot find the damn article with regards to birthsigns, but I do remember in that Article it was talking about Birthsigns and classes, so sorry I have nothing to show atm.

I'm just saying, if it was MY son that made this topic, I'd lock him in the cellar and feed him nothing but mushy graqes and canned tuna (the chunk kind, NOT the solid white).

Then I will pray to Thor that you will never get a son. :foodndrink: