If you want to start a thread about Enchanting, don't let me stop you. I don't know anything about Enchanting yet. If it's tedious, then yes, I'm against it too.

You can insist that spellmaking wasn't tedious until you're blue in the face. The fact is that *I* found it tedious. Again, I'm only voting my opinion. I didn't like it, and its existence forced me to make an unpleasant choice, so I'm glad it's gone.

If you can bring new facts to the case, I'm all ears. For now, it looks like this is a simple and irreconcilable difference of opinion. I'd be delighted to agree to disagree.


Don't sweat it. Bethesda took care of spellmaking for me



You're not selling this very well as something I should want to have in the game

Bah. Fiddlesticks and poppycok. If you are one of the world's most powerful wizards, which the devs boast a player will be able to become if they so choose (the ultimate wizard, warrior, thief, or combination thereof, as you like it, if you work for it), then why wouldn't you have one of the world's more powerful spell catalogues.

At level 3, a scamp should horrify you and send you scrambling up a rock or into the arms of the nearest city guard. At level 15, scamps shouldn't trouble you, but wraiths should make you wet your loincloth, and NOT in a good way! At level 25 wraiths should flee before you, while Liches, Gloom Wraiths and Ancient Vampires still fight you to a stand still. By about level 35, howevr, Liches, Ancient Vampires and Gloom Wraiths alike should tremble in their ancient Masouleums at the rumour that you have been sighted near their lairs.

That is, of course, if you choose to play such a mighty wizard. You do not have to. You really don't. If you do not want to play a mega powerful character, it is not required, and their are other ways of completing the game. But if you DO enjoy those options, and you do enjoy being a character of legendary might, you should not be prohibited from it for the pleasure of others.

Sorry its Just that I don't like multi threads with the same words really. Thats why I made a ncr and legion comment. Just tired of people bring up the same threads again and again, takes very little time to check out. I mean if they find the topic locked, that means they should check and see the reason not to flame or if new info, then a link to the last topic. Yeah will never happen, but a person can dream of a pefect forum.

Its an RPG, that is in real time. Still a full on RPG. Ever heard of the concept of making another build, or choice with actual consequences.



We were not born in that prison, we do, or should decide our history in said prison, or at any starting point of the game. We are not blank canvases let out of the prison to become gods in a year. Thats an action game.

Youre a guy O_O!!! I thought you were Angel Trainee Flonne.

Happy now Madaras Zore? You ruined the word guys meaning a group of people (curse slang?)
Back on cue, if this is a war lets atleast stay on topic rather than trail off on enchanting and birhtsigns and gender issues

I'm sorry, but Todd Howard have already confirmed that it's an Action-RPG. I am very sorry to break it to you, but this game was not made with only you in mind, but the general player.

There are still consequences in the game, and you can still choose wrong, by leveling up skills you won't be using later on because of whatever reason. But this time around, you're not making said choices in the beginning of the game, you are making them as you go. You are defining your character while you play, not before you start playing. And that is how a RPG or an Action-RPG should be.

Just because you don't choose a class of a list doesn't mean your a blank canvass. You are anything you want to be!

Phew I'm glad to know you're the little angle I know and love still.

What forced you to use spellmaking? Not only were there premade spells, some of which were actually good, but there were options such as being a warrior, or a hybrid class.
Nothing forced you to use spellmaking.

But as far as the game is concerned your a blank slate your character despite coming to skyrim and being captured by Imperials has no history and nothing to say why that character is that character....so yeah :teehee:

Many many factors in oblivion forced a magic user to use the spell making system. Even though it wasn't good it was what made it possible to make magic worth anything in that system.

Name a single factor. I don't remember there being a quest that said, "Go make a spell or you die"

There was nothing, people wanted to make their own spell and so they did. Just because they didn't like it, but still wanted to, doesn't mean anything made you other than you.

Name any reason you used spell crafting, aside from a role perspective. Any reason you have to use it is a reason.

Practically unlimited dynamic on the fly spellmaking > limited spreadsheety spellmaking

Spellmaking is in, it happens on the moment of casting. Fable style? I never played it.

http://youtu.be/-jY0nycNIO8

There is no need for silly pride, if it is a good thing we should take it. I'm sure the system will simulate old mechanics without the spreadsheety. Two spells max with two empty hands is a balance feature, here is your challenge.

Roleplaying
Customization.
Unique spells.
Character identity.

All of these things are optional. Nothing forced you to use it.

But its still important for every reason mentioned. You don't need spellmaking in an action RPG like fable, but it seems thats what Beth wants to make.

I said aside from a role perspective, everything you listed (and I disagree with your opinion on what a unique spell is) is based on a role perspective.

Very well since you refuse to respond to it.

Health drain, str drain...drain ect... Super effective little magicka costing touch spell

Oh and the broken enchantment system that went with it. where you could do all that on strike.

To put it simply it'd be dumb not to use it if it's available as the ugly man in the store wisely proclaimed, we choose the path of least resistance. Even if we want to play the game on extream difficulty we will choose to fully use the resources given to us, and while it might take forever to kill the creatures with the right spell making you could just let hoards of enemies attack without a care in the world. This is what is called broken.

I didn't use such spells. Just because people can't control themselves doesn't mean they should scrap it.
Not to mention there are better ways to "fix" magic. For one they could simply balance those spells, they broke them.

Besides, why on earth do you choose to play such boring spells? Gotta play your game to the max? Go play an action game.
You play a game for fun, not because you found a way to exploit the game.


You should really go hate on spell scrolls because they had the duplication glitch, not to mention bows. We should remove bows and spell scrolls, because people can't stop themselves from duping weapons. Why fix your sword when you can duplicate 50 of them, and just replace it when it gets broken?
And NPC's, because you could kill that NPC in Talos Plaza and keep taking money, or maybe its gold that should be removed?


If people choose to play a broken game, thats there problem. This is just like all of the people who moded doom for infinite ammo, then complained about how boring it got.
If you don't want to ruin your experience, use a spell that is fun to use. My favorite spell was weak fireball, that wasn't a big end game killer...
Just simplify the game all because some people can't handle responsibility...

As some have said the game is meant to challenge you, not the other way around.

You want a challenge, and yet you try your best to make it easy?
The, "I made a drain spell to kill everything" argument sounds like, "I wanted the game to be easy, but was too proud to change the difficulty slider"
When I wanted a challenge, I used standard single effect ranged spells. Low range, low duration, medium damage single effect ranged spells. It made it feel like you were a mage, not death.

Not to mention that if you made a drain spell of 100 pts, after about level 20 it would stop killing people. You could of course exploit the weakness to magicka effect, but that takes an additional casting of the spell (because unlike what many people think, the first cast doesn't engage the weakness effect).

I'm really excited about spell combination on the fly, as you for instance pick a fire spell in one hand and a shock-wave spell in another hand and cast them together to have a fiery shock-wave that throws enemy back and set them on fire at the same time.

That would be cool.

The inclusion of side effects for spell is great as well, so you can freeze your opponent that become slow, or for instance if you throw you opponent back, with telekinesis or shock wave, they would become dizzy for a while, and so on...

That would be great, and results in great strategic decision in the game while picking the spells to cast and combine.

don't forget you can couple these effects with things such as reflect damage absorb magicka, fortify magika, to a ridiculous amount.

There are plenty of ways to balance it. Increase the magicka cost of these effects, make some effects impossible to combine, make fortify magicka increase your maximum magicka but not fill it, change the mechanic of drain magicka. There are plenty of ways to fix it.


You're avoiding the arguement of using exploited spells makes you at fault for a boring experience, no one else. I'd like to actually see someone answer that in a way other than, "I want a challenge" and then avoid the conundrum of using something that makes the game too easy when they want a challenge. Should we take away the console because you can just use the kill command? Or remove mods too? After all, people who use exploited spells are just as guilty as people who make cheat mods.

One again, you're stating that a person shouldn't be all the can be in the game. Become as strong as is possible. To keep yourself from doing that is like saying I'm not going to do quest, it's a ridiculous notion, which is why games are patched to become as intended when exploits come to light, how magic was made I don't believe was an exploit at all where as the dupe item was. A good game has balance and is challenging, Bethesda has decided to make Skyrim (as it has made the others) a stand on it's own game, Spell crafting is oblivion, spell combining is Skyrim. People say they waste precious development type on many things, well one of those things has been their creation kit, if you don't like how they make the game then use the tools provided and mod it to satisfaction. I believe when released even those that are against it now will see how it's done and realize that it was for the best, those who believe otherwise have been given the tools to "fix it". (I have said enough on this issue so that is my closing statement I leave it up to others to decide what more to do with this thread.)

So what? Action RPG basically just means its real time, like every TES. Its still an RPG and shouldnt be made into an action game, or linear RPG to appeal to newbs and graphics hounds. Spell creation adds and is totally optional, therefore there's no reason to get rid of it.

Enchanting was 10x more broken than spellmaking ever was.