You don't have any real control of the magnitude. That is not good.

Once again, I'll say it. Spell combinations doesn't provide the same freedom, it simply creates a single spell from 2 spells. This "on the fly" stuff doesn't have all of the creation of the altar, non of its freedom. It limits you to a single spell. What if you want more area for that spell? What if it isn't strong enough? You can't modify that any more than what they give you.

No its not, becasue it doesnt give me the depth that I once had. Basically it boils down to no matter how many pre made spells Beth puts in, they are not going to make every single option...And thats where spell creation comes in, a totally optional system for people who want to delve deeper into magic and customize their experience.

Wow. You're right. Nothing forced me to use spellmaking. Turns out I never claimed it did. The very text you quoted in your post #159 said:


See post #114 for details.

You can't do that in Oblivion either. You can't make a spell that's stronger than you can use. How is that different?
We should assume that the Skyrim system allows you to cast a spell that is as strong as you can currently cast. That's exactly what Oblivion did, except that you could literally create the spell and then not be able to use it. (Correction - you couldn't actually create it, but you get my point.)

What damn freedom? You stacked static spell effects together, most of which had zero effect one another. Magnitude and duration are a function of the effect's governing skill. I don't know why you'd ever want to use a crappier version of a spell you can cast -- perhaps to preserve magicka -- but frankly I prefer to have my mage's power be represented more directly.

But you can. You can put one spell in one hand and any other spell in the other, thus creating any combination of 2 that you want. The only difference in Oblivion is that there were more than 2. And even then, half the effects didn't even mix together. Right?

In Skyrim you get a handful of premade spells. You can't modify their damage, nor their area, nor their duration.
In Oblivion I could modify those things. If the spell is out of my range of skill I can make sacrifices in one area so that it is. If I need a spell to do more damage I can boost the damage, reduce the area, and increase the duration. In Skyrim thats all picked out for me. I might be able to "charge" it for a little bit more damage, but what if the flamethrower effect is too weak?
I could use spellmaking to increase its damage slightly, it would cost more magicka but it would be more effective.

Thats one thing spellmaking gives you, control. Skyrim gives you premade spells that might not always be useful, but if they aren't useful I can't modify them any more than "charging" it, or wielding it in 2 hands. I have no control over increasing its magnitude.


My post isn't about your skill limit, its about the magnitude of the spells given to you.

And thats not the depth that I once had, thats actually pretty linear. Of course more than two effects mixed. you can even influence its animation if your skilled enough with auras. Its basically for Vanilla players, that cant make/download mods, even though PC users can and always have made great use of Vanilla SC.

Spellcrafting isn't even confirmed to be out. Wow.

You could choose how much damage you did. Maybe I want to do more damage than the premade spells give me. Maybe I want to conserve magicka by using duration spells. With the new system you can use 1 spell for a few options, maybe you can increase damage in 2 ways but only 2 ways! Thats not enough freedom, you have no control over the magnitude of your spells.

I hope I'm not mistaken, but I'm laboring under the presumption that the skyrim system works more like this:
You get: Fire.

Can you cast:

Fire 1-Max on:

Touch/Target/Trap/Continuous - depending on skills and perks.


That's actually more options than even Oblivion had. You seem to have a different impression of how the Skyrim system is going to work. I certainly hope I'm right, because the system that you are expressing to me svcks.

What governs the maximum damage? Your skill level is what we are all assuming. What if I want a little bit less damage, is there an option for 80% damage? What if I want to empty my magicka reserves, or is that the 100% version? What happens when we reach a skill of 100? Do our spells max out too, potentially before level scaling stops?

You can modify a spell with the new system, it can be in a number of ways, but not in the same number as spellmaking. In all actuality you only get a couple of options each spell.
If I knew more I could speculate more, if I knew all of your options I could fully explain how it can be bad. I do know that "on the fly" you can't modfy your magnitude more than a couple of preset options.

The way I was seeing it, if you cast the spell with no charging, then it was weak.

If you charge it "all the way" up, then it comes with the most power you can cast at your skill/level. Why shouldn't it?
Want 80%? then charge it 80%

I'm sorry, did you just say "skill" with regards to remembering that the first visual effect you use for a spell overrides any further effects?


I thought some interview confirmed it was? That Swedish magazine?


Two ways is more than one. Beforehand you just created a spell that had a higher damage magnitude. Now, if you want to do more damage, just equip it on both hands. You'll consume magicka quicker and do much more damage, they say. Damage over time seems to be something that they're having tighter control on, something that's supposed to be a feature of fire spells. Frankly I'm fine with that myself, though it's understandable that you aren't. Trading efficiency for resource conservation is a valid idea. Hell, they haven't given full details on the magic, though. Maybe there are sliders that let you control stuff like that in the magic menu? It'd be a damn good compromise.

That's not an aura. Or creating an aura on target. Plus just being creative using other effects. Basically I hear a bunch of people against creativity. Or didnt know what you could do with the system, or previous systems in the first place.

And no, spell creation hasn't been confirmed out yet. Hopefully SC advocates can create enough noise to get it in.

What is?
Enlighten us.

dont care

Ahh, just like fireball in fable 1.

That spell svcked. If you didn't charge it, it wouldn't kill anything after you've leveled some. You then become obligated to charge it, which takes a lot of time, in order to do any damage.
It sounds fun, charging the spell, but what happens when you are forced to wait before you can cast. We go from quick spells flinging in a flurry, very actiony, to waiting 8 seconds before casting each spell so it takes any effect.

And obviously this game is going to be exactly the same as Fable. <_<

From what little we've seen of the spells it looks like they'll charge relatively quickly. They'd be stupid to make it more than a few seconds.

I've never played Fable, but yea, that's pretty much what I'm seeing. The "min" might move up as you level though so that it stays relevant and reduces the total charge time. Charge time might just be limited to something like "5 seconds for max" no matter the level.

Casting a weakness or damage spell on touch/target with fortify Magicka on self created the visual effect on yourself without taking damage. you could use this to create all types of more unique and visually appealing spells. Like summoning a set of Daedric armor formed out of fire etc. Or casting a lightning bolt that made you pulse with electrical energy. With a little work, you can even get this effect on others, or enemies/NPCs. Just a little trick to make magic more aesthetically appealing, or for RP purposes.

Pretty much even more reason to add depth to spell creation, not just to cut it.

What I hear is somebody making a crayon drawing and putting on the refrigerator and then declaring it to be Michelangelo's Birth of Man.

I'm sorry, but mashing together spell effects is not very creative.

EDIT: I wasn't aware that you could apply visual effects to yourself by exploiting the system that way. It's basically a happy glitch, but I guess I didn't know everything about it. (Mostly because I don't care about visual effects on myself because I always play first-person.)

Because you lack imagination.

Im also not satisfied in a system where my damage is too variable. One thing I loved about spellmaking was being able to have a handful of spells for multiple purposes. I had a spell that was efficient, low area, medium damage, low duration. I also had a spell to use when I was overpowered by a group. I also had a spell to use to kill a single troublesome NPC. We might see some of these options, but we won't see all of the options we might want.

I also enjoyed roleplaying a mage. I once studied the elemental effects of various summons. I did this by having spells that all had a set damage, and then tested how many of each spell to took to kill the target. Repeated for each element. That way I could know what summons were weak against or strong against what. I could have looked it up on uesp.net, but it was fun to accomplish in game. If my spells are variable in damage, can I do that? Maybe, but probably not.

That's actually pretty cool mate. I'll give you this one.

I still don't think it's quite enough to justify keeping the old system. I'm certainly still in love with the new ideas. What I do think is that the old spell creation kit could just stay in somewhere, off to one side, so that you can do things like this if you want to.

That's fair enough for me, and it's all you guys are really asking for anyway.