Some people aren't happy unless they're complaining. Sad, but true.

According to the multitude of "I'M SO HAPPY THAT SPELLMAKING IS GONE I'M ON THE VERGE OF TEARS" threads I've seen in the past few days, it seems some people aren't happy unless they're lording the loss of features over those who actually used them.

Very excited that Spellmaking is gone. The amount of combinations and ways to use the combinations is huge. I have faith in whatever they do with the game except for the whole adding the young people thing. Maybe there will be a spell combination that will vanish all the youngens from the game! :flamethrower:

I think I see what you're saying, but I still kinda disagree. I don't see how the option to create a spell is a bad thing in any way, shape, or form, even if you don't plan to use it. How does it better the game to remove this option?

Do you really even want to know how it makes the game better to remove this option? I ask because it seems everyone who asks never ever cares to hear the answer. Many people have answered in many different ways and believe it makes the game better for many different reasons. All you have to do is read the treads already posted on the subject within the past two days and you'll find all the answers you could possibly want.

Do you really even want to know how it makes the game better to remove this option? I ask because it seems everyone who asks never ever cares to hear the answer. Many people have answered in many different ways and believe it makes the game better for many different reasons. All you have to do is read the treads already posted on the subject within the past two days and you'll find all the answers you could possibly want.

A person can hear your answer and still, ultimately, disagree with your perspective. If the removal of spellmaking ultimately ends up equating with a limitation or handicap on what can be done with a mage, on how effective a Master Wizard/Archmage a mage character can become, and thus a limitation on how players are allowed to play that is more restrictive than in previous games in the series, then it is not a general or categorical improvement. Those who say otherwise are taking a subjective view and behaving as though it is objective. They are advocating that options be taken away so that, essentially, their preffered playing style/ideal game structure will be forced upon others who may not, and in many cases vehemently will not like it.

There is no good reason to remove spellmaking, and removing it does not instantly make it awesome. If Bethesda makes unique spell effects, its not because they are no capable, but they had a better use of their imagination.

:banghead:
It's like talking in a different language with some of you people.

I will reiterate what I said "Do you really even want to know how it makes the game better to remove this option?" I asked this because of this "I ask because it seems everyone who asks never ever cares to hear the answer." So I wonder why bother asking if you don't? Not that they have to agree with the answer, all I stated was the answers are already out there. Once again I made no judgement on who is right or wrong in my statement, many people here need to start actually read what people right and not to start translating it. Take what people say at face value sometimes.

You're right of course. (seriously) removing spellmaking does not instantly make spells more awesome.

You're also right that they have not had a good record of making good spells.

I'm also sure that you know that bethesda has been working hard to make a mind blowing wonderful game.

Do you honestly think they'd take it out because some complained it's overpowered?

Or do you think it's more likely that they took it out to add a better more enjoyable system?

I think the Track record from Arena to present day will give you a clear answer.........

Bethesda addresses things that people complained about..........I.E level scaling in all its forms, such as the enemies, the items you get and their randomization (seriously a fork in a mudcrab), The All seeing all knowing GPS system, because people complained about being "lost", Spears because they were Buggy and exploitative in one game assumes that in a game with NEW technology and fucntioning, spears will still be buggy, Cross bows for I don't know what, the skills from Daggerfall to Morrowind which one can say were made redundant by Charm and command spells...BUT what about people who don't use magick? but I digress, Bethesda addresses problems because people complain about them...and addresses them in the wrong way...it never fails, they are always cutting instead of revamping and improving, as they tack on other things elsewhere and not expect a shio storm to brew it seems so its Both fans and Devs fault....fans for complaining about idiotic things self imposed, and Bethesda's style for addressing them. :shrug:

The problem is in the way you couch the argument. You said "do you want to know how it makes the game better?" That is a question suggesting an absolute answer. If you had said, "do you want to know how it MIGHT make the game better, or how it COULD make the game better FOR SOME," that would have been different.

That isn't what you said. You made a comment that implied that all those in dissent had to do was hear you out, and they would realize how right your position is and see the error of their ways, as if it were a matter of fact rather than of opinion.

It is the difference between saying things like, "let me tell you why I like dogs better than cats, red better than blue, boys better than girls, Summer better than Autumn, etc. etc.", as opposed to saying, "let me tell you why dogs are better than cats, red is prettier than blue, boys are better than girls, and Summer is Better than Autumn."

The latter set of statments suggests that you have an absolute truth, implying that if the other person likes cats, the colour blue, girls, and Autumn better. . . . then they are simply wrong and in need of correcting, rather than having a perfectly valid but different set of interests.

So, if I understand you right, you're saying TES has been going downhill ever since Arena, and will continue to get worse with each game?

Nope, I said what beth was doing because of fans and how they do it, nothing about the series svcking each time :shrug:

So, if it's getting better then they do care to make good games? (and though I may sound like i'm mocking or something I'm not)
Because what you're saying is confusing me.

They get better overall, but certain things are not as good as they were in previous installments.

Take a game series like Fable. As much as many people prefer the first one and complain about latter versions, in many ways, the newer ones did improve on the title. The graphics got better, the world got larger, co-op, local and online, was added, there were many more customization options. . . but for all the things they added, they also took away things that should have been kept in.

And for some people those tinkerings and their results could prove to be, if not game breakers, than at least serious impediments to their enjoyment of the game.

So, there has been a lot of debate going on in this forum after the announcement that spell-making might or might not return. Some people are obviously frightened at the thought of it being removed, but what exactly could that mean?

Well, I think I know why they might remove it. (No, it is not because they are simplifying the game.)

Here are the reasons:

1. Quality > Quantity

Spell-making is essentially an oxymoron in Oblivion. You aren't CREATING spells, you are just customizing the basic effects of a basic spell, or combining spells together. Let's use fire damage spell as an example. You basically have the spell effect and the damage it does, the duration of the effect, and the area of the effect. You aren't making a new spell, you are manipulating the variables. When Todd said that it felt too "spreadsheet-y", he wasn't using PR talk. He has a perfectly valid point. Magic becomes less experimental, and more mathematical by calculating what would be most effective with as little magicka used. Magic should be something that is used through trial and error; not spreadsheets and formulas.

How this will make spells better:

If spellmaking is removed, we will have less generic effects like "fire damage for __ sec and __ feet on target". It will also let spells look more unique. For example, it has been confirmed that fire can ignite the environment. This is much better than the random explosion that comes from every generated fire spell.

2. Combining Spells

Combining spells from your left and right hand has already been confirmed. An example has been mentioned where a circle of protection was combined with a chain lightning spell that caused enemies to be shocked if they were to come close to you. This already sounds better than the combination of spells in Oblivion, which only combined the effects rather than creating a whole new effect. This is true spellmaking; not the manipulation of simple variables that we so inadvertently defend from Oblivion.

So, do you believe spell-making should return?

Enchanting =/= Spell Creation. "...the magic one is Enchanting..." appears to make it clear Spell Creation is out, replaced by Enchanting which is "...the magic one..." so far as crafting systems goes.