So, there has been a lot of debate going on in this forum after the announcement that spell-making might or might not return. Some people are obviously frightened at the thought of it being removed, but what exactly could that mean?

Well, I think I know why they might remove it. (No, it is not because they are simplifying the game.)

Here are the reasons:

1. Quality > Quantity

Spell-making is essentially an oxymoron in Oblivion. You aren't CREATING spells, you are just customizing the basic effects of a basic spell, or combining spells together. Let's use fire damage spell as an example. You basically have the spell effect and the damage it does, the duration of the effect, and the area of the effect. You aren't making a new spell, you are manipulating the variables. When Todd said that it felt too "spreadsheet-y", he wasn't using PR talk. He has a perfectly valid point. Magic becomes less experimental, and more mathematical by calculating what would be most effective with as little magicka used. Magic should be something that is used through trial and error; not spreadsheets and formulas.

How this will make spells better:

If spellmaking is removed, we will have less generic effects like "fire damage for __ sec and __ feet on target". It will also let spells look more unique. For example, it has been confirmed that fire can ignite the environment. This is much better than the random explosion that comes from every generated fire spell.

2. Combining Spells

Combining spells from your left and right hand has already been confirmed. An example has been mentioned where a circle of protection was combined with a chain lightning spell that caused enemies to be shocked if they were to come close to you. This already sounds better than the combination of spells in Oblivion, which only combined the effects rather than creating a whole new effect. This is true spellmaking; not the manipulation of simple variables that we so inadvertently defend from Oblivion.

So, do you believe spell-making should return?

When Todd said that it felt too "spreadsheet-y", he wasn't using PR talk. He has a perfectly valid point. Magic becomes less experimental, and more mathematical by calculating what would be most effective with as little magicka used. Magic should be something that is used through trial and error; not spreadsheets and formulas.

There is nothing in life that doesn't boil down to mathematics. You cannot escape it. It's 100% impossible. Spread sheets are merely a way to organize so that information can be better understood. Trying to move away from these two things is impossible.

There is nothing in life that doesn't boil down to mathematics. You cannot escape it. It's 100% impossible. Spread sheets are merely a way to organize so that information can be better understood. Trying to move away from these two things is impossible.

But when talking about Magic, we aren't talking about real life, are we?

But when talking about Magic, we aren't talking about real life, are we?

And Xarnac, there was many who complained about Spell Creation before.

I didn't say people complained about it being too spreadsheety, but it was many who complained that it was overpowered and not well implemented.

About it not being in real life was more a joke, as many people seem to forget this (Not targeted at any in this discussion, but generally).

So then you agree that there's no reason to get rid of it, balance it maybe, but not get rid of it?

So then you agree that there's no reason to get rid of it, balance it maybe, but not get rid of it?

I can certainly understand your fable anology. I can't imagine feeling that way about a TES game though. However, people being different often have different worries and hopes that are difficult to communicate. Your passionate opposition must be because you fear that the spell system will be so bad that it ruins your enjoyability of it immeasurably. However I think that the way beth has changed it will be for the better and you're worried it's for the worse. So it is difficult to see eye to eye on that point. Now though if there was something I was worried about that would be game breaking for me that's been confirmed, I would not hesitate to get the PC version, because when all else fails the ones who create mods save the day. As of now the only thing I want changed/added would be nudity in the game (not naked people everywhere just not that stick on underwear annoyance), so I'll still be getting the console version because that isn't too important to me. So peace be with your my TES brother.

So do spells simply get more powerful as you level up then? or are there stages i.e. 1..2...3 like dragonshouts?

As an avid mage player, I should know this

Nobody knows for sure yet. Hopefully it doesnt level with you though.

In some ways, I almost hope they do gut TES of all the features that made it good, and then when they fail to live up to the hype that these posters run with we might actually get a good game again when TES VI is released.

I never really liked spellmaking. It did feel "spreadsheet-y" as well as present weird questions of balance. I wanted my character to be a great wizard, but I didn't really relish the idea of spending hours on end tweaking a bunch of numbers to do my own custom versions of spells that had perfectly good "off the rack" versions anyway.

I would rather have the spells just exist. It would be great if I could only unlock some through research or experience instead of buying them from vendors, though. Buying spells from vendors as if they were cans of beans always felt lame.

So I voted "Nay" on spellmaking. However, I completely recognize that others might have loved it or whatever and I completely respect that they might be mad it's gone for very valid reasons. Personally, I won't miss it and am actively glad it was taken out of the game economy so I don't need to feel like I'm gimping myself by not exploiting it.

Skyrim with magicka(the game) spellcasting

It didnt take hours to make a spell unless you were a newb.

Taking it out because you didnt use it is not a valid reason. thats like saying we should take out sneak becasue I personally didnt use it.

No, but if I wanted to have the feeling of being a real master, the best mage I could be, I would want to customize ALL my spells. That certainly would be time consuming, and not really fun gameplay.