I never liked the way how you could become all of the classes in Oblivion , it actually made no difference if you started as a warrior or as a mage if not just in the very beginning , you can become archmage and superwarrior or master of thieves all with the same character.... Actually Only morrowind made me replay the game as a different class altough still had problem of class hybridation ....

I think this time the Game shoudl focus a lot more in dividing the classes and the feels and the quests so that Eventually they may lead to complete different endings or Better .....


How about

Continue the quest further but as a second player ....

SO let's say you play the warrior and you complete the main quest then allow you to create a new character that is not a warrior and make other quests starting from the point where your warrior arrived ..... like if your warrior becomes king of the area then leave him as A NPC King and you get a new character to start with from the time events shaped from your previous character , that way the game will feel still new even if you replay it to complete other side quests or different class paths .... I would really like something like that ....


(PS Can a mod fix my mispelled topic title?)

Thanks for brilliant Topic


I do agree was somewhat unbelievable how a warrior could become arch mage without a bit of magical knowledge.


However split characters does sound very confusing i would be very annoyed to have to start from scratch and lose my previous character!

The solution was and still is if you want your archmage to be a mage and your Grey fox to be a thief etc you can make multiple games!

However don't see why you cant have a character who is brilliant warrior, mage and thief, the classes do limit playing abilities

Nah, it just adds more to player restrictions. What if someones roleplaying a warrior who one day decides they want to learn magic?

If you don't like the fact that you can change, just don't do it, but don't enforce it onto everyone else

I didnt write but also a mixed character class wouldbe fine , like having a warrior mage or other will be just fine just limited in the careers as mage and warrior like having not full access to the specturm of abilities that pure classes would have....


Plus I think the idea of reaching a certain point and then drop you character as an NPC and prosecute the game as was shaped and evolved around your first character with a new character that so will play in the changed world from the first and may be even why not interact with your previous character as npc that will have his NPC behaviour forged by your actual actions ....

I dont like the idea of conitunation thing you seemed to be getting at.

I'd rather them have skill level requirements not plain level requirements. This way you couldn't suddenly advance straight to the top of the mages guild knowing only one spell.

this is what you actually do right now in oblivion you can speed up to the tops of all classes without distinction ... instead splitting and hybridizing woudl give more meaning to the class you pick in the beginning ...... they made so many nice class types but actually they have no impact or no meaning at all when you play couse feel all the same .....

and continuing it after woudl save you from the boredoom of playing the same quests over and over , but instead would allow you to have more and more ....

I know, maybe i want to play through those quest again with a different class. Not having ago but i'd rather have the ability to do almost everything if i really worked at it with one character.

That being said if i can choose different sides leading up to the end then im ok with that also.

the replay can always be an option but i think adding the Option lik e.......

Continue from the world your previouse character has shaped or
Continue from a resetted world space ....

Would be very cool .....

I don't think limiting the character progression is the key here. TeS games are all about huge choises how to build your character. HOWEVER I'd have guild restrictions. to join mages guild or to progress that path one must be a well versed in magical arts. If a weakling breton would try to enter fighters guild, he would be laughed at. If you wish to be a warrior mage, fine by me, but that requires great effort to be good with both fields.

Furthermore i'd like to see the return of conflicting guild questlines. Great houses, nine vs temple, warriors vs thieves and so on. You could join every guild and even progress a little in that path if you had the skills they require, but at some point you would have to make a choise where loyalties lie.

I think it was clever.

Being able to change careers or follow each and everyone of them added to the interest in the game.

In this age, it is a small chance most of the players will go back to square one and try different paths, playing the game again and again. I, almost never do it. And other than really avid completionists, I don't know anyone who does. It just is not feasible today when there are a lot of games waiting to be played.

So it is a better idea to pull the player into the game as long as the developers can.

I enjoyed following different paths one by one when I was playing Oblivion and would never have played the game three times, starting from the very beginning.

This thread already exists, it is called More Class Centrilization or somthing like that. And rather than repost I will simply say the entire point of the TES games is that they don't really limit you. To place any form of constraint would make it no longer a TES game. If you are looking for classes with a set number of outcomes and possibilites pre-programmed to eliminate as much choice and need for true depth and careful game design as possible I reccomend WoW or Dragon age, but please not in TES it's the only series left that doesn't have class centrilization. I beleive there is somone who took a arguement of mine and put it in his sig. I beleive it is as follows, A baker can fight, a librarian can shoot skeet on weekends, and my warrior can cast spells.

Yeah I'm gonna have to disagree with this one.

In the Elder Scrolls series, options have always been number one when it comes to your character. I view classes as more of a starting point. These are not your common DandD style games, these games allow you to create a character who you can then expand, change, and shape as you progress. You can start out with a character built entirely for a thief, join the thieve's guild, be a bad guy. Then maybe you say, well hey, my character's starting to realize what he's doing isn't right, maybe now I want to make him a noble warrior so he can change his ways. So now, yeah it will be harder to do, but you start to train and eventually shape your character into a warrior.

It adds a ton to the roleplaying aspect, this way we don't have to completely restart our character (that's no fun.) I will agree with you on one aspect though, I think they should take a lesson from Morrowind and make the guilds have some requirements for advancement. It made no sense in Oblivion, I could go through the entire mages guild and barely have to use a single spell, especially when I could just pick up scrolls and use them.

Bottom line is, it's all about choices, and most of the things people complain about can just simply choose not to do. Just like fast travel.. If you don't like it, don't use it. Needless to say, would've been nice if they had put another form of travel in there for ya too. I have faith they'll make things better with Skyrim.

The Morrowind way was fine, I don't understand why skill and stat requirements were removed for Oblivion it for sure made no sense.

What? Spell level requirements were still in oblivion and in morrowind my level one killed dren and walked out of his plantation in ebony and daedric with daedric katana. What skill requirements are you referring to?

Skill and stat requirements to advance in rank in the guilds. You couldn't reach the highest rank in mage guild unless you had one mage skills at 90 and two others at 30 and both mage stats at 35 too (INT and WIS)

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mages_Guild

Ohhh, I apologize I had no clue that was what you meant. Yes that makes sence and I would very much like it to return in a lesser form. Ie- the arena champion should not be level 5, but I don't see why a great house couldn't be run by a level 1.

I dunno what you pbase the assumption "TES Games are like that" Actually its not , its just oblivion that is like that previouse one had more Class centerization and more Class pecific paths to be followed , I personally do not like a big blob thing where you throw anything inside so u can cast fireballs climb a wall and swordfight all at the same time , its just unrealistic and boring making the game easy and spoiling the Tactics , only teen players like that way usually .... all this system makes just classes usueless and pointless , with no real impact on the game ...

Yeah.This type of gameplay is called The Elder Scrolls.

Since Arena,actually.

Did you play Arena at all? It was not skill based at all, 100% class based. The true fighter classes couldn't cast a single spell and had 0 Magika at all and no way to ever get spells. The Mage class couldn't use a single piece of armor and were forbidden most weapons.

In Daggerfall and to some extend in Morrowind it was damn hard to get useful magic build without planing it from the start because Magika capacity was mostly decided at birth and damn limited without specific "perks".

Yeah I was playing Morrowind long before Oblivion. Morrowind was the same way. I have a spellsword right now, trained mostly in magic, with a good long blade skill. I can jump on, and train heavily in stealth, and completely make him a stealthy assassin/thief character and go join the thieve's guild and morag tong, no problem at all. Or, I can train my heavy armor skill (no clue what it's at, whatever it started me at, probably level 5?) and start toting around heavy armor, and make a pure melee character and join the fighter's guild and house redoran, no trouble at all. Or I can lose the sword and just do a pure mage in an instant.

So how do you figure Morrowind wasn't like that too?

As I said, the only difference was the guild requirements.

Agreed.

Also, I don't mind when someone decides to change paths with his character. Leave one guild, join another, that's how it should work.
What I really hated is that your character could become a master of everything, there were no choices or sacrifices to make.
IMO, there should be a finite amount of skill and attribute points, and when I want to increase something when I hit the limit, I have to shave the points of something else. If we stick with the thief-goes-warrior example, I might want to lower my security skill to get more points into heavy armor.

If every character looks the same in the end, there is no role play involved.

I'm playing Arena right now, and there are mixed classes, that can fight with swords and cast magic at the same time.

In Daggerfall too.

In Morrowind and Oblivion you're able to max out all your attributes and skills.

And of course in Morrowind there are skill requirements, but not class requirements.

You can become the leader of the Fighter's Guild with a Mage character,too.

Look we have different opinions and they aren't going to match up here ever. In reality these threads and both our opinions are likely a non-issue in any sane game developer's mind.

"I fail to see how not restricting players with a set and unchangeable list of predefined "skill paths" that result in a set number of opportunities provides any more depth or realism/"immersion" to a game. In my Opinion they do the exact opposite by not only limiting and annoying the player but by placing very effective proverbial blinds on whoever is playing the game. I have always seen them more as a way to not have to worry about game depth or possibilities by simply lazily limiting everything anyone can ever do into a set number of contingencies. This is coming from someone who played vanilla WoW from it's release. (I have yet to pick it up since the easy, blind, and insultingly pathetic expansion called wrath of the lich king) Anyway my opinion is the opposite of your obviously, you find depth in predesigned mechanics that allow a character to easily climb up his chosen route and allow you to really get into the feel of that "class" and focus on getting things right and done reguardless of the limitations placed on you as a consequence of how streamlined it is. While I find depth in open endedness that allows me to do what I want with a plethora of tools whenever I want and to have no real limitations on what I can do. So I can get a feel of the world and maybe successfully dabble in a little of everything. I don't claim that either is better, but they are a definitive dichotomy in the gaming world, but it appears you have made a minor mis-judgement as TES games just don't have what you are looking for."
A lazy direct quote from a better formed arguement of mine.

No thanks, there's enough games with poorly implemented class restrictions out there. Bethesda already can't balance worth crap. Playing their gimped thieves and mediocre warriors is torture enough as it is without being forced to do it to access their skills.

NO! TES character development is exactly what sets it apart from other RPGs.

What defines character development is our own personal investment. If you wish to be a competent fighter AND a competent caster, then be prepared to put in twice as much work. If I'm willing to put in that work, wtf is the problem? It violates some ridiculous fantasy trope? I don't give a damn. There's no reason why someone CAN'T be a master of multiple disciplines. People do it every day. It just means paying the price.

If TES ever goes to a more rigid class structure, it will be a sad sad loss for RPG fans.