What would the impact on the Tribunal and the citizens of Vvardenfell be if Sotha Sil were to return?

As part of my mod I'm considering having Sotha Sil return in the minds of the citizens of Vvardenfell. Let's assume that they believe that he isn't dead and that he is now out of his Clockwork City and wanting to interact with his people again. Who would follow him? Who would side with him if he were to have disagreements with the other gods? Would the Indoril follow him if he wanted to push the Imperials out of Vvardenfell.

I'm thinking that Indoril warriors could be stirred to the point that they would rebel against the Imps and then the Redoran would have no choice but to follow since the conflict has been officially sanctioned by the Tribunal ie "Sotha Sil". I think that if Almalexia were dead and Vivec disagreed that her absence at least could be manipulated so that her followers would side with Sotha Sil given House Indoril's hatred of the Empire.

The only problem I see is if Vivec didn't want to fight the Imps for some reason and he tried to hold his warriors back in Vivec city itself.

I was thinking that in order to win the people over(in Mournhold) given that he has been blamed for the attack on Mournhold itself he could put it down to an experiment gone wrong and to make amends with his people he wants to give them something - freedom from the Imperials.

Thoughts?

I can't imagine why either Sotha Sil or Vivec would want to secede from the Empire? They were both instrumental in joining it in the first place after all... they've become quite wealthy off the trade of Dwemer items, Kwama eggs and volcanic Glass and Ebony.

But I digress....I'm sure Indoril would side with him, especially if Vivec opposed him. For one, Almalexia has had Vivec under house arrest for several years now. The Ordinators distrust Vivec. There would be a schism in the Temple, with the Indoril and some of the Redoran possibly favoring Sotha Sil. But a lot of the Buoyant Armigers are Redoran too, and they'd side with Vivec, as would Hlaalu if if he chose to stay with the Empire. Dres is pro slavery and traditional so they'd side with Sotha, presumably.

When?

Just an Idea have you considered the posibility of the dwemer to return not sotha sil... I mean the dwemer tech on ruins along the land has kept working for hundreds of years since the dwemer dissapeared... the centurions move the weels and clockworks keep runing and the pipes still steam... even after decades of or centuries of plundering... not to mention that this continues after that what I understand to be the fount of their endless power (Heart of Lorkan) is destroyed by the nerevarine... and long after that Mr Ur directed this power to his own twisted followers..., so... why not establish that the dwemer dissapearing as it is was not that at all, but a vanishing to another realm (this is suggested ingame) from wich they use their magic and their powers to proyect and take over the "posses" (has to be explained in better words I think) the dwemer tech lying around and starting a long proces of self repair and adaptation to gain full control of this new bodies during most of this time...

This opens a door to many concepts unexplored in morrowind factions...

-Hive mind
-the diferent ranks of the "possesed mecha" maybe static machinery that actually operates and run control of the ruins
-Possibility of being hurt/dismembered as part of a quest and having a mechanized limb
-assist on the construction of an overmind machine (something gigantic thinking the golden trone of the undiing god emperor of the space marines)
-and possibly the expulsion of the imperials from vanderfell (resulting on some sort of comercial blocade for TR compatibility) and or destruction of this overmind and the means of war of the dwemer

Again thoug elavorated this is just an idea I sort of gave to fly at the end jaja

Looking good!

I should say that I don't want to resurrect him. I just want the PC to pose as him. Go undercover so to speak and be a false Sotha Sil. I don't want to wrench lore. Bending is ok, but no wrenching .


1) I thought only they only conceded becuase the Empire had them defeated, militarily?

2) Source on Vivec and Sotha trading and becoming rich?

3) Source on Almalexia placing Vivec under house arrest?

4) Source on Ordinators distrusting Vivec? I thought Vivec(the city) was his and his guard loved him?

5) Why would the Buoyant Armigers side with Vivec? If the Temple was divided wouldn't the Buoyant Arm. be divided proportionatle so?








I've been thinking about the power issue - its written that the Dw use a lot of steam energy so I have been constructing steam networks and engines fuelled by sea-water passed through lava caverns.

Possession is an interesting concept. I'll have to think about it more but I don't think it would fit in with what I want to do. On that scale at least. One of the main problems is that I don't want to tread on the toes of the biggest mystery in Elder Scrolls Lore - the disappearance of the Dwemer. I think I'll leave that to Beth. But maybe a couple can come back .

I doubt he wont to have any impact to people of Morrowind at all.

1) Talos didn't REALLY defeat them... he threatened to sic his Big Stompy Robot on them, and they were all, "But, how 'bouts ya just let us keep our slaves?" And Talos said "Cool."

2,3,4) Pfft, who needs SOURCES?

5) The Buoyant Armigers are Vivec's harem. They'll side with him no matter what. They're like Almalexia's Hands.

1: The Empire didn't have the Numidium yet. Vivec handed it over in the Armistice. Everybody except the Dunmer factions who were spoiling for a fight (Indoril, Redoran, presumably the War Ordinators) thought it was a win-win deal. The Dunmer got home rule, Talos got his Big Stompy Robot, and nobody got hurt.

Sotha Sil was very persuasive, and he could bring a large number of the Dunmer around to his way of thinking, whatever it happened to be. But he was more a tinkerer than a war leader, and I think he'd seek a way to subvert Imperial rule rather than engage in open warfare. Also, I don't think he could rally the whole nation without the support of Vivec. And Vivec was the one who quashed the war with the Imperials.

1) Talos didn't REALLY defeat them... he threatened to sic his Big Stompy Robot on them, and they were all, "But, how 'bouts ya just let us keep our slaves?" And Talos said "Cool." Not quite - he got the BSR as part of the armistice. Vivec negociated the armistice to prevent a repeat form the 80-years long bloodbath that occured when the previous Empire tried to move in Morrowind

2) those who made the most money out of the armistice are Dres and Hlaalu

Back on the premises, I don't think it would worl well if Vivec is still around. I'd think he would have no problem telling if the ressurected Sota Sil is the genuine article or not, even after losing his link to the Hearth, and he definitevely doesn't seem interested in leaving the Empire. Especially in a way that'slikely to start with a civil war which would ease considerably the empire's task at keeping control. Especially since he's the only Tribunal member stil laround and seriosuly weakened from the power he had when Talos came knocking to the door.

RIGHT! The Tribunal GAVE Talos the Big Stompy Robot... that's what you get for relying on memory alone and not fact-checking!

So if the Temple could at least match the Imps in combat if the Imps don't have the Anumidium then I think a lot of Ordinators would be chomping at the bit to remove the Imps but Vivec is honourable so I guess he wouldn't renege on his deal. He would require justification which could probably be manufactured by Sotha Sil.




I should mention that I didn't intend to fool Vivec. I agree with you in that Vivec would pick an imposter straight away but I was considering having the imposter known to Vivec but having Vivec go on with the charade to maintain his people's strength in the light of his loss of godly powers. I mean what would stop the Imps from exploiting the resources and people of Vv if they found out that Vivec had lost his powers and that Sotha Sil and Almalexia were dead? I think it would be a fun quest to convince Vivec to side with you in a war against the Imperials which is a direction I really want to go in with my mod.

As a side note I find it annoying that the spell checker doesn't recognize Elder Scrolls specific words. We should talk to a moderator about getting it changed.

Vivec is the Anticipation of Mephala, he is the king of murder and lies, and he is not in any way whatsoever honourable in the least >.>

But I guess that's one of the things I like about him.

In his people's eyes he is. His followers turn a blind eye to his less care-bear-esque qualities.

I'm not sure how big an Impact Sotha-Sil would have if he did return. I don't think he'd have a-lot of Power left, like Almalexia and Vivec.

No, no, and no. Did I mention no?

The irony is: it's one (1) "possession".
On this issue, you two might want to consider looking at Anumidum, the Dwemer and the sacrifice of their golden souls to create its body.

As to a return of Sotha Sil: why would he (want to) return in the first place? He did not resist and fight Almalexia as she killed him - so it was his intention not to live anymore. As far as I am concerned: let the dead rest in peace.

The deal, I think, is that it's an impersonator. Sotha Sil is still very dead. But someone wants the Velothi* to believe that he's not.





*Practicing my lore terms... because Dunmer is SO last era.

Ohhh one of THOSE...I've read this story before http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Leader_of_the_Second_Imperium.

Yeah it's a brilliant plot device actually. I commend you on using one of my favorite deceptions. Would it work on the Dunmer people? Well... finding out their gods are dead would be a low point for them. Having the Nerevarine disappear is even worse. Having Helseth abolish Slavery adds insult to injury.

If "Sotha Sil", the beloved patriarch of the Dunmer people who personally spoke to them and convinced them their red eyes and ashen skin was a blessing rather than a curse, and who defeated Mehrunes Dagon when he was attacking Mournhold..if this beloved character reappeared and promised a return to the glory days of the Dunmer, I imagine very many loyalists would follow "Sotha Sil."

With Illusion magic, and a good disguise, and a lot of Personality, this would be possible. After all, Jagar Tharn impersonated Uriel Septim for over ten years.

To quote the Star Wars story: "We had all of the brilliant speeches and recordings the Emperor had made. We had his thoughts, his policies, his records. We knew we could make the Second Imperium work, but no one would have followed us. We had to give the people what they wanted, and they wanted their Emperor back—as you did. You were easy to fool because you wanted to be fooled."

Curious you have given an answer wich is not an answer, to a question that was not meant for you to beggin with. Out of place I think

That he uploaded himself is a much cooler alternative.

That seems like a good plot line... question where do you intent to stop... I mean erradicate imperial military precense or narrow it down significantly? could it be work the both ways around and side with the imperials? is Vivec{s conspiracy and the false sotha to be exposed and dealt with in the end resulting in the fullfilling of all the nerevarine profecies?

Thanks. I thought it would be a nice way to bring some fancy debating into a questline. I like your idea about
using illusion too. I hadn't thought that far ahead and yeah a disguise is essential. I found a mod in which
someone has restored Sotha Sil's mask and cuirass and another that has an armoured skirt so his armour is a
done deal.

As for him deafeating Mehrunes Dagon, didn't he run off and let Vivec finish him? I was going to have him tell
the people he just ran off to get reinforcements but he received word of Vivec's final victory before he could
finish gathering them all.





That's a good idea. Maybe that's what that giant machine he was hooked into was about. He went as a spirit or
something into Aetherus(?). Aetherus is already in my mod so I might use this. Ta. Don't really know about
interpretting a major character, though.





Yeah, good question. It could be become really involved and complicated. I would like to see a delicate balance occur in which the empire and Tribunal are equally matched so that much of Vv is left untouched. But I would also like to give the player the chance to wipe them out...all of them(sorry, had to do that). This would leave Vv with a lot of empty space. Perhaps I could write some random NPC generators to fill the gaps left by the Imps.

It would also be good to let the player side with the Imps and use the deaths of the two gods and Vivec's weakening to fuel the final blows need to march on Vivec City and Mournhold. Could be fun either way. That would be good too if the Imperials or the Neravarine Cult, lead by the true Nerevar, made true the prophecy of the Trib. being false gods and now mortals.

The best way to prove you are a god, or work for one, is to provide a miracle. What would you like? Erradication of Nords on Solstheim, perhaps by destroying the climate through the Bloodmoon ritual, followed by invasion? Maybe simultaneous execution of the Dukes of Morrowind. Predicting and stopping the Nord/Orc sacking of Redoran. Or, the Nerevarine could perform these miracles. He was ultimately responsible for the expulsion of the Legions in the canon universe, perhaps he's just more frank in yours? Better than a fake Sotha Sil is the real Nerevarine. Zealots of the Temple would kiss his feet and rejoice to see Vivec once again. Sotha Sil's Anticipation already gave the Nerevarine her blessing. They would fall on swords for the moon-and-star.

Awesome. He's also depicted in the novella 2920 as wearing a white robe a lot. A person would really only need his mask and a white robe to impersonate him - along with Illusion and Speechcraft.



Ha...no! Far from it. Sotha Sil dealt firmly with the Daedra more than once. He actually went into Oblivion alone once and faced eight of the nastier Daedric princes alone in a council. He made some type of deal with them that he won't discuss with anyone so that they wouldn't invade Tamriel except on certain summoning dates, etc.

But Mehrunes Dagon disregarded the contract and invaded Mournhold anyway. Vivec was busy leading his forces against Imperial assault, so Sotha Sil and Almalexia raced to Mournhold to face the Prince of Destruction. Almalexia was badly wounded in the battle, but they forced Dagon back by presumably destroying his body like Akatosh did later. Sotha Sil carried the wounded Almalexia to Balmora to heal her wounds. Almalexia made this obscenely historically incorrect statue in her city showing her facing Dagon alone, with Sotha Sil nowhere to be seen.

The incident you're thinking of is from the Pilgrammages of the Temple, which refers to another event where Vivec challenged Dagon to a duel, and offered him his own silver longsword rather than fight an unarmed opponent. This was a different event.


In the same book as the fight where Sotha helped kill Dagon, he also destroyed a Dark Brotherhood ship with a single fireball, and impersonated a Daedra Lord with Illusion magicka. So basically we're talking about an extremely powerful and adept mage.

maybe he invented computers and uploaded himself into one. the loveletter does talk about 'digitals'