Hevnoraak for president! Free access to badass masks!*



*While stock lasts.

I think Skyrim should be free from the empire, but Ulfric should not be High King, soldiers never make the best kings.

Skyrim's right of self-determination would still be a cause worth rallying behind.

We have cause to doubt the accuracy of that loading screen. First of all "know to secretly" do something is a pretty big oxymoron. More importantly, we see one of the few named Thalmor officials is completely impotent in Markarth, unable to arrest the local bard because he has no evidence.

Voted for a Skyrim free from the Empire and free from Ulfric.

This.

Thankfully, now that Skyrim is done, the Empire vs SC debate isnt as popular as it was before.

A Free Skyrim? Yes.

Ulfric as King? No.

Getting close to the landmark 100,000 CW threads now. Keep it up guys.

Ulfric wouldn't have much reason to leave though. If Mede held his ground, then the only thing bad about the Empire would then be the puppet High Kings, but that's something that you'd need to show fault of the Kings with to get a cause behind to remove him. Ulfric's for Torygg was that he supported the Empire that sold out their gods and them to the elves. Without that, the puppet King thing's really something you could look to change on your own later.

The only thing I can think of for why Ulfric would start another war is if he was just hungry for power and decided to kill the king in a challenge while the Empire was weak and looking to fend off the Thalmor while they were still technically at war with them since no treaty was signed. I can't see him doing that, however, and you already know I don't think he does just want power. I doubt he'd have nearly as much support either. They don't like the High King situation, but that alone's not really a reason to fight after the great war just happened. Any other time though, sure.

edit: There's the issue of Mede's death, but Ulfric can't predict that.

He'd have had reason enough to leave: Skyrim should be allowed to determine its own fate, and not to have it be dictated by the whims of an Emperor in a city thousands of miles away. Argonia seceded, Morrowind seceded. Why not Skyrim? There's no reason the split couldn't be amiable. A good alliance could hold strong between them, even if they decided to split off. Hell, Cyrodiil probably wouldn't be in a position to hold a grudge, for fear of causing Nord members of the Legion to abandon the Empire and return home.

There's also the matter of trade: I wager that the Empire takes quite a bit from Skyrim's coffers in terms of trade and in taxes. That could also motivate Nords to seek complete home rule.

Besides, I doubt the Nords would have been appeased had the Empire succeeded in just repelling the Dominion. I wager they'd want to gain something for the blood of their sons and daughters, not just protect the status quo. Anything less than a complete and utter defeat of the Dominion probably wouldn't satisfy them, giving potential separatists like Ulfric a "reason" to try and seek independence.

There's nothing to really go off of as far as what they do or don't take for trade. The East Empire Company is their main trading company, and they're independent. I imagine mostof their companies are.

Everything you're saying besides the complete and total defeat thing are genuine reasons for any other time, but to break off from the Empire when they just fought off an enemy barely, and there's no treaty in place? Ulfric's cause works because all those problems are shown from the WGC and the Talos ban, so every citizen sees the effect of their rule under the Empire. Without the WGC, I don't see Skyrim suddenly deciding to leave now when they've been mostly fine with staying in history, and only being mad about their High King being sanctioned by the Emperor.

And if Ulfric did try, without a real rallying cry or something to point to like the Markarth incident, not nearly as many common people would join him. I just can't see it. Not after the great war anyway. They'd be too busy getting ready to get payback, as you said they'd want to. Without Mede's WGC, the Empire wouldn't be something needing to be separated from immediately. I still don't like the effects of their imperialism and all, and think they should eventually split but still. WGC was the big thing that just made their split for me urgent.

I see the Great War unwon as an inciting incident in and of itself. The Septim Dynasty is lost, and the Mede Dynasty is clearly not up to task, failing to hold an empire that united Tamirel together, as well as failing to crush an invading threat. The Empire still comes off as weak and ineffectual, even without the WGC in place. People would still be completely right to say it's time for Skyrim to get off the sinking ship of state before they're dragged down with it.

The main things that would hold Ulfric back in my opinion are threefold:

1) He'd be too young to really be taken seriously right after the Great War, and he wouldn't have the clout since his father would still be Jarl of Windhelm.

2) No Markarth Incident to cement him as a martyr in the eyes of the Nords, though the "Liberation of the Reach" could be enough of an accomplishment to help him become a folk hero and gain some much needed clout.

3) The shaky political situation post-Great War might make the Jarls and High King hesitate to endorse the idea of a separation from the Empire.

I agree with those points that would hold him back. As for the Empire being weak, I don't know. Technically as far as the Great War goes, if they took back Cyrodiil and didn't sign the WGC, they'd have actually won the Great War, albeit with huge losses, so the Empire is weak argument while true, wouldn't have nearly as much weight. The accurate description would be "weaker" not weak.

Maybe if they didn't sign the WGC, the Empire would be too nervous to stop Ulfric and send troops to deal with him if he dueled the High King. In that case, Ulfric may have just won the throne through the moot. Elisif is the rightful Queen by blood, but the fact that Ulfric could just challenge her may be enough for them to give it to him. After that, the Empire may have just said "[censored] it, we're technically at war still and can't afford the distraction. Let them secede, and we'll be allies."

Maybe.

If I were Ulfric though, and there was no WGC, I'd be busy teaching Nords the little I know about the voice.

This thread again? Come on guys. There are more interesting things to discuss now.

Free Skyrim from the Empire's unworthy claws.

Place Ulfric on the throne, because then Tyra, my character and his daughter, can one day become High Queen and then start Skyrim's first official wrestling tournament! Men and women, Nord or not! No arms or armour. Just fists and some bandages!

For serious though, I do think Skyrim should be free and that Ulfric should be king.

...

If I got a penny for every civil war thread that I've seen...I could now afford a better pc so that I can play Skyrim on that.

Like what?

I realize this topic has been mauled over and over again. But I find it fascinating how emotional people get about the civil war etc.

I just completed the MQ for the first time, and due to a glitch (I look at it as an enhancement) my character was forced to join the Imperial Legion to gain the support of general Tulius (have him agree to the meeting with the Graybeards).

I decided to do the CW quest line now and have the Jagged Crown...I might still give it to Ulfrick.

If Mede had that 'I win' button hanging round his neck he'd have done fine. Nothing like being able to say "if you invade successfully this fire goes out and the Daedra will get you"...with an additional "make me Emperor or I might just put them out myself" on the side. That was the cornerstone of the Empire. With that taken away it's no surprise the Empire fell apart, the only surprise is that Mede even tried to hold it together. I'd have taken the first ship to Akivir.

Like... ANYTHING!!!!!

Clearly not as it's the most talked about thing in the forums I know nothing's ever interested me this much in TES before. Besides Nord lore.

I'm with you. Even though I don't have a side of my own it never ceases to amaze me. Without CW topics I probably wouldn't even have this forum bookmarked.

Ulfric Stormcloak as High King, a united Skyrim under his rule. However I believe he has no plans of standing by and letting the Empire deal with the dominion on its own. I believe with all my heart Skyrim under his rule would be more powerful then ever and help the empire defeat the dominion. And I see afterwards the empire and Skyrim patching its relationship as neither side will likely have enough of an army to keep fighting eachother should the empire try and retake Skyrim.

Have you tried typing "civil war" into the search bar?

Ahoy!


Here is an in game source for you mate.

It appears I can't post a link for you, but here is the relevant text. The in game book is called, "The Great War."





Aye, one would think it was blooming obvious.

Cheerio.

Option 4. If it were up to me Tullius would pull a Julius/Augustus Caesar and strong arm the Elder Council into action. Then push out the AD from Elsweyr and Valenwood. After that focus on diplomacy with Skyrim, Hammerfell, Morrowind, and Argonia. Then give High Rock a greater measure of autonomy while Cyrodiil works on rebuilding it's infrastructure.

Will never happen. The Thalmor make it all the way to the 9th Era if a couple of obscure texts are to be believed.

The problem is that 9/10 times it's exactly as expected. Biased arguments we've heard before, and biased counter arguments we've heard before.

It almost never brings anything new to the table, it just repeats itself.