[Katie Samuel]

Here's an interesting article from Forbes.com that refutes the notion that Rey is a "Mary Sue:" http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2016/01/04/no-rey-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens-is-not-a-mary-sue/#42ebcf03d45b46f63701d45b

[Gen Daley]

If you think you're facing a powerful force just remember the tide can turn at any time: https://youtu.be/I3V56pNO6NY.

Mastering that T-47 harpoon minigame can mean the difference between Victory or Defeat .

[Fanny Rouyé]

When did Gollum become the Emperor?

[Sophie Louise Edge]

The fact is TFA turns learning to use the force, which used to take years of training and discipline into a few seconds NEO finding the special feeling being the "One" like in the Matrix and boom Rey is the Chosen One.

[Dan Scott]

I think it is implied Rey is extremely talented with the mind portion of "mind trick" force. She entered Kylo's head and svcked up his training. Then she did it again.

(Also Neo trained like a machine. If you ignore "he is the one" exclamations, he is only becoming better with his understanding of the Matrix and his training.)

[Laura-Lee Gerwing]

That could be possible. Its just as possible though that she has training though but had memory blocks that Kylo broke.

[Stephani Silva]

As a stand alone movie, Rey is definitely a Mary Sue. But I'm gonna withhold judgement on her character as a whole because it can be explained in the next movies.

But if it's just "she's x Jedi daughter so she is super powerful", then I agree it's stupid and she's a Lame Mary Sue.


We shall see if it turns out there's a tangible reason for the things she does, like being trained before or something.

[herrade]

Exactly! I think you touched on a good point here too. People are judging this as a standalone film and not realizing that there are two more to come that may answer the who and how that is Rey.


I dont believe she is a Marry Sue because, like in past films, the questions of one film were answered in another. But if I am wrong and they dont explain her then I will be deeply disappointed in this new trilogy. Not only will she be a Marry Sue but she will be a Deus Ex Marry Sue. And lazy writing/poor directing is a pet peeve of mine.

[Lillian Cawfield]

But we saw she had been in that planet since she was a little kid, when did she get her training possibly? It is still possible. But if anything broke down there, it was in Kylo's head. She blew that boy's mind.

PS. I read the "too old to train" quote as not a part of the training requirements but a simple case of "too old for indoctrination". Jedi are a cult after all, with rules calling for no attachments.

PPS. I like my protagonists competent, so I have no qualms in the Mary/Marty Sue discussions. I mean I like training scenes a lot but you can always introduce a badass from the get go. Rey is a self-learner apparently which extends to force powers too.

The most badass thing would be Rey turning Finn into a force user! She can enter other people's head and she already entered Finn's head in the Falcon scene.

[Ells]

If she turns out to be Luke's daughter she could have had training practically from birth. She appeared to be about 10 in the flashback so that could have been at the most 10 years of training.


.... I dont recall any such scenes of her entering Finn's head on the Falcon.

[Yvonne]

I think he means she entered his head to be able to position the falcon to shoot when the gun was stuck.

[carrie roche]

That wasn't implied at all though. If anything just being force sensitive would have been enough to give her the "luck" of being able to pull off such a feat. Whether she knew she had the ability or not. Anakin piloted pod racers and it was stated he was the only human that could do it. It was because he was force sensitive that gave him that edge needed.

[sarah]

Force gives focus, it is not luck. But there was more going in that scene, there was totally a kind of mind syncing between them. She used the force, I think we can agree on that. At that point in the movie, they didn't want to reveal who was the force user so most brushed it off. After the reveal, mind tricks, entering Kylo's head makes me think she is especially powerful with that side of the force and if you extend this back to the Falcon scene, yeah I think she used the force in that way to enter Finn's head too.

I totally expect more of that in the sequel.

Also I don't think force training can go without a lightsaber. She certainly saw her first one there in the Maz's place. I seriously doubt she had any training. The movie was kinda empty and the only thing I could pick up, the only thing that was emphasized repeatedly, was Rey being a self-learner and a mind master, kinda like Sylar from Heroes.

[Elle H]

I said "luck". I was kinda playing with it like how Han said it's all just luck.

Perhaps there was some sort of syncing. She did seem to know exactly how the ship had to be for him to pull off that shot but unless it's distinctly implied I'm more incline to think that she just tapped into the force and let it lead her. Also I'm very fond of the theory she has blocks placed on her memory. It would explain why until Kylo began probing her mind, particularly after he mentioned her seeing an island surrounded by an ocean that is later seen as the location of Luke, she seemed to have no knowledge of how to control the force directly. After he gets that far into her mind is when she begins to show control of the force. First by fighting back and soon after performing a mind trick. Where would she have obtained that knowledge? It's not something that force sensitives, especially ones that dont even know they are sensitive to the force, just naturally seem to know how to do. Luke was exposed to it by Obi-Wan, before hand he had no idea such a thing was possible. Rey shows absolutely no knowledge of the force, even expressing the belief it was all myths, and then after that event begins showing advance usage of it. She has to have some form of former training that was blocked from her memory.

[Oceavision]

I think a Rey's proficiency with a lightsaber needs to be put into context:


1. Rey beat Kylo in a lightsaber duel

2. Kylo wasn't fully trained. Not even nearly. He was seduced to the dark side fairly early on in Luke's training and he hasn't received a huge amount of training yet from his new master, as we can see when he begs him for more training.

3. We can see the lack of Kylo's proficiency when he was seriously hurt during the duel by Finn, who we are assuming is force sensitive but has clearly never held a melee weapon before, as evidenced when he complains about a lack of blasters.

4. Before his duel with Rey, Kylo had been shot by an extremely powerful weapon (Chewbacca's crossbow blaster) and he had been sliced up by Finn using the lightsaber, so he was already seriously injured and heavily bleeding (which is probably why he was able to be hurt by Finn in the first place).

5. Even Luke, who had as far as we know never held a melee weapon before, was able to foresee and intercept blaster fire with his lightsaber on his first MORNING of training with as little training needed as "close your mind, use the force" needed. Blaster fire. I mean that takes some serious skill, inhuman skill. So why are we surprised at Rey being able to intercept a lightsaber with hers? They would move more slowly than blaster fire after all.

6. And finally, Rey was already clearly very proficient in melee weapons, as we can see by her expert use of the big stick (can't remember the name of the weapon, too tired, will edit it in when it comes to me) on Jakku.


All in all, even without training in the Force it is t a huge surprise that she is able to best Kylo in the final moment.


As for her using the mind tricks, she is learning - you can see her practicing and she is practicing by using techniques that she has heard in myths - that was my interpretation of it. She has heard that Jedi can get people to bend to their will, and she flexed those muscles on that storm trooper when she was tied to the chair. Those muscles had really been awakened by her mind battle with Kylo, when she showed that she has more power in the force than him. We don't know how much training you need to withstand that - it could be that it works on a purely subconscious level.


I won't have any problems if there is no talk of prior training in Rey's character. I think there is ample reason why she was able to do the things she did.

[Jordyn Youngman]

I believe its in one of the novels, but it tells of the training first order troops go through. Melee is almost as big a part as blaster training is. So Finn would have at least been familiar with the concepts of melee combat.

[dean Cutler]

Oh okay great, thanks for explaining that. I Did find it annoying when I saw how good he was with the lightsaber. So you've cleared that up nicely. Thank you.

[XPidgex Jefferson]

It is also theorized that the one trooper he faught is one from his squad he personally trained and worked with in said novel. Which is why that trooper seemed to take his presence as a more personal affair. Would have been great if some of that was shown in the movie. Would have added some emotional weight to that scene.

[Sierra Ritsuka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4Y3dlTDAxw

Yeah, apparently in TFA they whole galaxy should have been in an economic crisis.

[Melly Angelic]

I agree that Luke shouldn't have destroyed the Death Star, I mean https://youtu.be/djZFHTa6TfA

Oh.....

[JR Cash]

Only just seen it. A few thoughts.

-The name Snoke is cringy imo

-The chrome trooper was shoe horned in. Never really introduced. Christie's voice didn't really fit it. I was expecting a gravelly Boba Fett like 'Kill them all'

-I felt at times some of the acting was poor.

-The little creature with weird glasses. Yeah didn't like that at all. That entire scene was meh. Also she's 100 years older than Yoda at his death?

-One of the scenes with Han and Ren was complete cheese. You know which one I mean, no spoilers.

-I'm not usually picky about the science, but the whole sun thing was preposterous.

-The fact that it nearly lets you think Coruscant is blown up.

-The new droid was cool and the bits of humour were nice.

-Story wasn't great, but it has a reasonable set up for possibly great sequels.

[Robert DeLarosa]

Yeah I was never a fan of that name.

[Far'ed K.G.h.m]

Honestly anybody reading this expecting there not to be spoilers is a fool. If you're talking about the bit on the bridge though, near the end of the film...? Didn't find it cheesy at all actually. In fact Han, Leia and Kylo's relationship was the part of the film I cared about the most, and I found the result of that scene extremely strong. For those who don't like spoilers (why are you in this thread?!) look away now.... are you gone? Good.

Spoiler

So Kylo killing Han compares with Vader saving Luke, and it compares beautifully in the difference between the love a parent has for a child compared to the love a child has for its parents. It was difficult for Kylo to kill Han but at the end he saw it as a gift that Han was giving him, and he saw it as justified, if incredibly taxing. On the converse, Darth Vader looked out children throughout all 3 of the original trilogy. Even when he wasn't exactly being Father of the Year, while letting them be hurt a little bit, he would never have let them die:


-In Episode 4 he advised Leia not to be hurt, that he could personally extract the information from her and that she was not to be killed.

-In Episode 5 he had Luke at a serious disadvantage, but waited long enough for Luke to escape despite there being plenty of opportunity for Vader to finish him off there and then, and Luke escaped using the same method that Anakin had used to track down Jengo Fett in Episode 2 (jumping on to a moving ship), and if Luke could sense Leia coming then Darth Vader certainly could, so Darth Vader knew Luke was going to escape him.

-And finally in Episode 6 Darth Vader went so far as to commit basically regicide, high treason, turning against not only his leader but his mentor and his friend, in order to save Luke's life.


I think this, along with plenty of other examples from them and other characters throughout all 7 episodes, shows that there isn't really a purely Dark side and a purely Light side. Darth Vader basically did everything he was told to do By Palpatine but he stopped short of allowing his children to be murdered.


So Ren killing Han wasn't Cheesy, none of it was cheesy. It was a good indication in the differences in what parent would do for a child verses the reverse and it worked as a great comparison between Ben/Kylo and Anakin/Vader. I think this scene was very important for characterisation. Best scene in the whole movie in my opinion.

[Sophie Payne]

I'd hardly say Vader and Palpatine were friends. Maybe before his transformation into Vader that might have been so, but to Palpatine, Anakin/Vader was nothing more than a powerful tool, an albeit threatening one to his reign. Which is why he had Vaders movement and Force abilities restrained in that type of armour. We also know Anakin didn't go to the Dark side out of lust for power but as a way to save Padme - and saw Palpatine as tool to achieve his goal.

There's also a lot of material on their relationship - while possibly not considered Canon - that should be taken into context, as it paints a more realistic view of them.

[Miss Hayley]

I suppose since Disney own the rights to "Harry Potter" it makes sense that Serverus Snape should serve as Gollum's 'Apprentice'.

Snoake?

Seriously?

Were all the good bad guy names taken?

These comments are all meant in a good natured manner from a fan of the series who was there in cinemas for the originals and who, all fun poking aside, does really enjoy the latest edition.

Even if they essentially re-made Eipisdoe IV.

Hey, if it an't broke, don't fix it right?

But I think a good friend of mine hit the nail on the head when he said to me "They made Star Wars fun again".

They did.