The 10mm... Useless? I'm not sure if you are joking... The 10mm kicked so much ass it was ridiculous!

Because it was only in the game to add a bit of flavour to the tutorial. It wouldn't have made alot of sense to hand some 10 year old kid an Assault Rifle now would it? But it did make sense that you were given a 10mm pistol that was owned by the Overseer, and that you were able to get more from the security guards. They wouldn't have been very effective as security officers if all they had were BB Guns. You can't even kill someone with one of those, unless you're very, very lucky in where you hit them. When I was a kid I had a friend who was shot in the head by one and all it left was a welt.



Not compared to other weapons in the game. I certainly wouldn't try to take down a Reaver with one, or an Overlord. You'd be dead in no time. They were fine in the early part of the game, but once you started running into the higher level enemies, they weren't very useful anymore. I never used mine for anything more powerful than a plain Feral Ghoul, and maybe the odd Raider.

You can still kill an armored guard in Fallout 3 with the BB gun.. it just took more shots. I also found the 10mm to be pretty badass like Gromm said. It looks like we will just have to agree to disagree here. I still respect that you have an opinion.. I just don't agree with it.

During which time he's beaten you to death with his baton. I tried it once, just once. It wasn't a viable option.

Fallout 3 was somewhat balanced with it's repair system, if you was unable to find compatible armor it was pretty useless after some time, however at that time you had access to talon armor from some mercenaries before you come to the ants.

Morrowind started out right - you got squat - but it's economy was messed up badly. If you even half-heartedly traded, you could be a gozillionaire by the end of the game. Money was really only an object for the first few levels, and then you just bought what you needed. After a while, buying and selling was a mere formality. Only if you were heavily involved in enchanting items did large amounts of gold make much of a difference.

I never finished Oblivion, but the economy seemed a bit more balanced.

Also, it was Tribunal that brought in the DB armor - not the vanilla game. I do think it was ridiculous that you could just sell the armor for a mint, though. Kind of took the challenge out of earning money. The armor should have either disintegrated, or been cursed.

Jeez, it was so easy to adquire money in Morrowind....i had 124k septims by the time i had been infected with corprus.

That's one of the biggest flaws in all of Bethesda's games then as it was also too easy in Oblivion and Fallout 3. I never played Morrowind myself, but it sounds like just more of the same in that area. Hopefully they put more effort into the overall economy with Skyrim to make getting filthy rich more of a challenge.

It was only easy if you used Creeper + Resting. Otherwise it was a huge pain in the butt.


Currently, of all Bethesda-tech games, New Vegas has the most balanced economy, and it's not even a Bethesda game technically.

There needs to be some kind of consumption engine to balance out Skyrim's economy. For Fallout 3-New Vegas, it's the unique Repair system, and, to a lesser extent, the Ammunition in the game. I've no idea how they can pull it off in Skyrim, use ore or ingots to repair equipment?

I think it would be great if you start with a crappy old sword and maybe some clothes, then you have to work your way up from the dirt bottom. That would be best. So like kinda in between Ob and MW.

Well in Oblivion you start out with just some prison clothes and wrist irons, so how is that any different? Granted, it doesn't take you too long to get a bunch of stuff, but you still have to kill a number of enemies in order to get to that point, and do some exploring. It's not like the game simply placed everything in your inventory right away, you needed to earn them first. And the stuff you do end up with is the crappiest in the game, so it's not exactly a Monty Haul that way.

Well, you also got a rather expensive magical staff, and a large pile of loot to sell at the conveniently place Imperial City. I always immediately sold all the items from the tutorial, and was able to afford some rather nice gear.

Also, you get a steel shortsword, which is better than an Iron one which they could have given you. Also, as your light armor you get leather, which is better than fur. So you skip the bottom tears for those few items. Granted it isn't much, but that put together with what you stated, nearby enemies and the dungeon across the river, you get along quickly.

I think a slower start would be nice, where you have to do a few measly jobs for a few gold until you can afford a weapon or piece of armor that allows you to do comperably in a fight against anything stronger than a mudcrab.

What the hell are you talking about? You're given like 50 bucks and told to go to Balmora, where you get 200 gold and are sent away unless you want to start the MQ, in which you'd get dominated in the first dungeon.

The magical healing ring you're supposed to return, and even then it's useless because it's healing properties svck even for a level 1 guy, I don't know what you're talking about with the sword and full armor, but basically you have your own starting routine to get all that stuff.

My starting routine involves getting like 15,000 gold and an artifact ring within the first hour, but that's because I know the game enough to know where to go to get all that stuff. Morrowind starts out where you have an iron dagger, clothes that look like garbage, and less than 100 gold.

But you weren't just given those things, you had to kill a number of enemies in order to get them. So you had to earn them first, starting with nothing at all. Now it could certainly be argued that you came across too much stuff at first, but that was one of the flaws of the game in general, not just in the starting dungeon. It was simply way too easy overall to make lots of gold.

Before you HAD to fight on your own you could get a katana along with a steel shortsword. With the katana you can one-shot the rats which then lets you get a bow and some other loot. You have a healing spell(granted a weak one) and a fire spell that could one-shot alot of the enemies found in the tutorial. You didn't have to work too hard to get that stuff. Stand around and grab the katana when its owner gets killed, then kill two rats for a bow. The rest was cake. Then once you got into the world you could quickly go to a town, join the fighters and mages guild simply by asking, and you would have access to plenty of Iron/Steel items to use/sell and hundreds of books which could also be sold. Since merchants had semi-infinite gold there was no limit to how much gold you could get by selling guild loot. From there it was just concurring dungeons and leveling which gave you access to better and more valuable loot which again could be infinitely sold. (I planned a bigger post but seeing as it has more to do with economy I'll put it in a different thread)

I have to agree that it annoys me when you're given reletively good items from the start in games, because it often leads to some early game items being completely useless to the player, since your starting equipment is better, I prefer it when the game gives you only the bare minimum of what you'd need at the start, and let's you work for better things. Take Morrowind, for example, of course it's pretty easy to get some good stuff at the start if you know what to look for, but that's a problem in the game as a whole, a lot of good items are protected only by being well hidden, once you know where to find them, there's really nothing stopping you from taking them, even if you're low level, but that's another matter. The fact is that they game doesn't just give you these things from the beginning, you have to get them yourself, and if you haven't played the game before, you might not know about them, and wouldn't think to try to get them.

If you had actually read my posts, you'd realize that I've mentioned on a couple of occasions at least that it was way too easy to get rich in the game. So what's your point?

You are given the shortsword, for free. That's already a free, no effort item that isn't even the lowest tier. It's also the first weapon you get. (Well, and the katana) And yeah you had to kill alot of things to get through the tutorial, which is why I hope Skyrim is different. That tutorial locked you in a dungeon, and forced you through. No way to avoid it. I hope Skyrim's 'tutorial' is much shorter, much more open, and rewards you much less. Hell, I would even be pleased with a guy going 'let me train you' (after setting you free from jail, as we know Skyrim starts that way). So he could lend you some nice weapons and armor to fight your first foe, but then takes it all away and gives you a spare sword or something. That way you learn the controls, all the basics, and get some combat experience, without the pile of loot.

I like ob just fine

I liked getting the sub par leather and iron it was nice to have a full set for astetic purposes but still know I had to be carefull.

I wish that there were more "busted" versions of armor and maybe with a high smithing skill you could raise them into a normal state that way you could acctualy find a whole suit of ebony or whatever but some peices would be in disrepair, useable but still in disrepair

I did kinda jump in, my bad. But I was actually in the post screen so long those other posts came in before me. I also thought you were saying it took effort to get the tutorial items which it doesn't take much at all.

No it doesn't, and I mentioned that there was probably too much stuff in it. But some people were making it sound like everything just ended up in your inventory right from the start when that simply wasn't the case. You start the game with nothing but some ragged clothes on your back and some wrist irons that are worthless. The rest you have to work for. Whether it's too easy or not is a different story altogether and really applies to the entire game, not just to the starting tutorial.

Well the wrist irons can be enchanted and are useful since they are the only hand clothing piece. They are also very hard to find outside of the pair you are given.

I'd much rather have a good set of gauntlets myself.

Yeah but the game was much more difficult.You'd better have spent that money on potions,teleport scrolls,spells and such else you run a good chance of dying.
Plus Fargoth's heirloom ring was a piece of crap against all but the weakest enemies.You'd lose health faster than you would gain when spamming it.
The thing with Morrowind was there was a crap ton of high level gear hidden through out the world.Anyone remember the visser dignat ebony mine?Free daedric weapon lol.(can't remember how it's spelled)

Though yeah the dark brother hood guys basically vomited money on you while you slept.

:nod: