[RELz] Stat Cleaner : IV

» Mon May 16, 2011 9:59 am

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=35614

A utility to remove all script-offset modifiers (applied via ModAV or ForceAV) from skills and attributes. Uses the new ModAVMod command from OBSE v0019 to do this more safely and reliably than the UOP's stat restore; no need to remove items, etc.

Full credit for both the tools and the idea go to JRoush, with assistance from the OBSE Team.

!!! IMPORTANT !!! THIS MOD IS UNSUPPORTED.

It functions as advertised, but if used incorrectly may cause problems. Be certain that this is the tool for the job before using it.

I have no plans to create a version which allows you to selectively clean only specific stats, though that's a very good idea and someone should.

Any other modder is free to use part or all of this mod, so long as credit is given. Frankly, the script is simple and obvious enough that you're probably better off re-writing it yourself and saving the hassle of writing me into the docs.

» Mon May 16, 2011 2:30 am

Good. Don't happen often, but I have gotten posts from people who have uninstalled Real Sleep Extended while they were tired, so I can link them to this mod to fix it then

» Mon May 16, 2011 5:46 am

Tejon-

With my character attempting (still) to update to nGCD v2.2) - went back to a save prior to all I described before.

Removed all gear that gives bonuses, waited a day for all enchantments (that I may not see for some reason - though I don't think there were any), went to alter to heal.

The character had a +8 To Willpower (in green on character sheet) - errr. I haven't yet tracked down what is causing these shifts.

Did the console command to clean stats - here is what conlog shows:

startquest statcleaner
--- Stat Cleaner starting
!!! +8 cleaned from Willpower
!!! +13 cleaned from Fatigue
!!! +50 cleaned from Athletics
--- Stat Cleaner finished

So the +8 willpower addressed. But It took all but 4 points of athletics away. At level 21 (without nGCD and with Progress settings I've always had) he does not have 4 in athletics.

I then went back and tested with the UOP stat restore - it too got the +8 Willpower, it did not adjust any skills (certainly not -50 athletics), but it did take 130 away from fatigue (10 times what this did).

What are your thoughts?

» Mon May 16, 2011 6:02 am

Well, the results are what they are; there's literally nothing that can go wrong with the detection and cleaning process, which is the whole point of using this instead of the UOP version. The only real question is, what caused it. Some mod was really messing with your Athletics. The good news is that once it's cleaned, the rest of the fix is VERY easy. Just use the following console command:

player.SetAV Athletics ##

...where ## is the unbuffed value you think it should be at. SetAV actually adjusts the base value of the attribute, rather than causing the sort of "dirty" script edits this mod cleaned out in the first place. Wherever you set it, that's what it is; and since you're using nGCD, your attributes and level will update accordingly.

Actually, if the mod which caused this was keeping track and actually reversed those changes later, that much of a shift in Athletics matches up nicely to the nearly-3-level jump you saw. What in your current load order might be relevant to running, swimming and possibly fatigue?

» Mon May 16, 2011 2:17 am

The one and only realistic fatigue by Abo.

I do have it set to give small skill ups.

Perhaps you can spot another:

Spoiler

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But that is the only mod I know if that would have that direct impact. I'm uncertain if RF records each skill up (which are all micro .1 ups) as it seems that no skills lose points when uninstalling the mod.

Further, the character is a Nord Warrior with most skills being combat in nature. I'm not sure exactly but I'm pretty sure he started with athletics over 20. I guess I should look that up though. So RF would not be the only source of these skill ups.

What exactly is wrong with using the UOP stat restore function again?

» Mon May 16, 2011 6:51 am

What exactly is wrong with using the UOP stat restore function again?

This one can't fail, either on detection or correction. The method that the UOP uses is a bit less reliable. It's also the best method available without OBSE, so of course it still needs to exist.

With either method, though, an active mod making scripted changes to those stats while you're trying to fix them is going to completely mess it up. I'm not convinced it's Realistic Fatigue, simply because ABO is the author of Realistic Leveling and would run into similar concerns with that as I do with nGCD; then again I haven't seen the code of either, he may explicitly work around it.

My knowledge of mods outside those which I use or which have common interactions with ones I've written is painfully sparse, so you might be better off posting that load order in a fresh thread and asking if anyone can suggest what might be messing with those particular stats.

» Mon May 16, 2011 10:44 am

With my character attempting (still) to update to nGCD v2.2) - went back to a save prior to all I described before.

Removed all gear that gives bonuses, waited a day for all enchantments (that I may not see for some reason - though I don't think there were any), went to alter to heal.

The character had a +8 To Willpower (in green on character sheet) - errr. I haven't yet tracked down what is causing these shifts.

Did the console command to clean stats - here is what conlog shows:
So the +8 willpower addressed. But It took all but 4 points of athletics away. At level 21 (without nGCD and with Progress settings I've always had) he does not have 4 in athletics.

I then went back and tested with the UOP stat restore - it too got the +8 Willpower, it did not adjust any skills (certainly not -50 athletics), but it did take 130 away from fatigue (10 times what this did).

What are your thoughts?

Not all 'broken' stats are fixable. If a mod used the right combination of script commands to adjust your stats, then there is literally nothing that can automatically restore them. You will need to open an older save or make an educated guess, and correct the stat by hand.

This mod - like the UOP stat restore - assumes the most common kind of broken stat, an 'orphaned' buff or drain that some script applied and forgot to remove. Tejon's approach is, as he said, more straightforward and reliable than UOPs, but even so it can't do the impossible.

» Mon May 16, 2011 10:19 am

Well for now I will stick with the UOP. And this next round I will deactivate RF and any other stat adjusting mod I can think of (I use very few of these actually) then do the UOP.

What I'm preferring about the UOP is the ability to focus on only attributes or skills or derived stats if you want, so Tejon if you decide you want another round at updating I'd recommend those four options (All, Attributes, Skills, Derived).

Thanks

» Mon May 16, 2011 2:30 am

Well for now I will stick with the UOP. And this next round I will deactivate RF and any other stat adjusting mod I can think of (I use very few of these actually) then do the UOP.

What I'm preferring about the UOP is the ability to focus on only attributes or skills or derived stats if you want, so Tejon if you decide you want another round at updating I'd recommend those four options (All, Attributes, Skills, Derived).

Thanks

Well I spotted one thing that you may not be aware of: Kragenir's Death Quest. This mod makes drastic changes to your attributes, depending on how you do the quests. I complained about this previously because #1 I didn't agree with the changes, and more importantly, there's not always a message about it - on-screen or in your journal. I went through and documented all the attribute changes - I've got them in my notes somewhere. I remember that there was one quest that could permanently reduce your luck by 10. There are changes to personality and endurance too. In my case, I am positively compulsive about my character's progression so I keep a chart as he levels and was able to reverse the changes. Neither the UOP or this mod will be able to fix those changes - you have to do it yourself. Not all the changes are negative, some are bonuses, but I didn't like KDR messing with my PC's attributes without any sort of warning or message. I think Povuholo is considering making this an optional feature in the future...

» Mon May 16, 2011 12:51 pm

Thanks so much - yeah I did not know that - and I agree what an extraneous thing to add to a bunch of quests collected into a mod.

I was uncertain if i should add it to my new character's load order and this has made my mind up - at least until it is removed.

I don't think Kragenir's mod gave me a 50 point bonus to Athletics though.

[edit] Deactivated RF and Kuertee attribute jewelry limits - same result at level 21 the character (according to this gizmo) is supposed to only have an athletics score of 4. Starting a new game without Athletics as a major still gives a base of 5.

Was thinking though - this character has tried out about a half dozen realism-Immersion mods. I guess I will use this then and use the player.SetAV Athletics ## command.

» Mon May 16, 2011 12:37 pm

I'm sorry but this is not working! :brokencomputer:

I did the console command player.SetAV Athletics 54 and it maintains a -50 to athletics no matter what I enter. So entering 70 and I get 20.

Further, the skill is read as a -50 on the skill page, so it looks like a curse or penalty or something.

» Mon May 16, 2011 6:05 am

Alright one more post to illustrate what I'd attempted to describe above.

Review:
After running Stat Cleaner the character was cleaned of 8 willpower, 13 Fatigue (neither of them extreme and the willpower matches what UOP stat restore would offer), but also a -50 athletics - this seems extreme and incorrect. The reason it seems incorrect is that the character started with more that that. The caveat - there has been a lot of realism-immersion mods in and out of the load order (so weird damage could have occurred). But I still thin there is an issue with this mod. Here is why if I use player.SetAV Athletics to any number I still get a permanent -50 to the skill.

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/JohnAfterStatCleaner.jpg showing the skill after stat cleaner
http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/JohnStatadjustedto70.jpg showing the skill after Player.SetAV athletics 70 (notice the permanent -50 as if it were a penalty to the stat). No matter what I set Athletics to now the penalty is present.

I'd sure appreciate someone else trying this out and seeing it output like this happens to them.

» Mon May 16, 2011 11:00 am

What does your active effects page show? That's the last tab in the magic menu.

» Mon May 16, 2011 2:12 pm

What does your active effects page show? That's the last tab in the magic menu.

All accounted for by other mods:
RBP (Racial and Birthsign Powers)
CLS Sneaky Feet
Duke Patrick's Combat Archery weapon correction effects.

And again no matter what I enter for the Athletics I get the perma -50 ... so entering 25 I end up with -25 in the red and -50 next to the total, always.

» Mon May 16, 2011 6:49 am

Without knowing the situation or what caused it, just by seeing the -50 listed there I'd have to conclude your character picked up a -50 penalty somewhere along the way that you didn't know about.

Of course, that being the case, I'd have expected that 50 points to be returned rather than just dropped, leaving you with a 4. If I'm reading the skill list right, you have a base of 70, -50 penalty, resulting in 20 actual. Running this script turned that into a base of 20? Perhaps something as simple as a math error in the code?

» Mon May 16, 2011 3:42 pm

No not right he had an athletics of 54 prior to running stat cleaner - I knew of the willpower being off by +8 as that is what UOP stat restore corrects as well. UOP stat restore does not adjust athletics.

Running this Stat Cleaner took away 50 from athletics now it is minus 50 no matter what I set it to - set to 70 to illustrate that it is still penalizing my character by 50 giving me 20 ... same results no matter what I set it to and the -50 always shows up,

Read above my character stripped of all magic enhancing gear, visited healing shrine, waited out cell respawn. These are stats and skill unmodified by anything but race, birthsign, and damage.

» Mon May 16, 2011 2:40 am

Alright one more post to illustrate what I'd attempted to describe above.

Review:
After running Stat Cleaner the character was cleaned of 8 willpower, 13 Fatigue (neither of them extreme and the willpower matches what UOP stat restore would offer), but also a -50 athletics - this seems extreme and incorrect. The reason it seems incorrect is that the character started with more that that. The caveat - there has been a lot of realism-immersion mods in and out of the load order (so weird damage could have occurred). But I still thin there is an issue with this mod. Here is why if I use player.SetAV Athletics to any number I still get a permanent -50 to the skill.

http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/JohnAfterStatCleaner.jpg showing the skill after stat cleaner
http://i361.photobucket.com/albums/oo54/psymon11b/JohnStatadjustedto70.jpg showing the skill after Player.SetAV athletics 70 (notice the permanent -50 as if it were a penalty to the stat). No matter what I set Athletics to now the penalty is present.

I'd sure appreciate someone else trying this out and seeing it output like this happens to them.

Did you try the ModAV command?

Player.ModAV Athletics 50

That might HOPEFULLY get rid of the annoying modifier, but if it does not, then I've got nothing.

» Mon May 16, 2011 1:19 pm

Well I seem to be realizing one thing ... without other bug reports I got no traction here.

If the command is seen as infallible then I just need to move on. I cannot though with this character and this mod.

I don't know how to track down if there is a hidden penalty on the character that does not show on the active effects tab.

I'll look into what ModAV does but I recall RF having issues with that command. And to be clear RF is not installed during this process. But I am suspecting RF as it has been in the character's load order from pretty much day 1. So if another RF user would just test this and see if they get skewed issues then that would clear that up. You don't, after all, have to keep the save you used this on.

» Mon May 16, 2011 3:00 pm

Hmm. Ok, I think I see what Psymon is getting at, my results on a test character I don't much care about anyway:

===============================================
Game Instance : 1 | Time : 11-13-2010 14-57-48
===============================================
MMO:Updated values from ini file in data\ini\.
EE:Updated values from ini file in data\ini\.
All Natural Tamriel: Initialised
All Natural SI: Initialised
startquest uop
startquest statcleaner
--- Stat Cleaner starting
!!! +38 cleaned from Agility
!!! +5 cleaned from Security
--- Stat Cleaner finished

The problem here is that the UOP stat restore function correctly identified a bad -38 to my agility and fixed it. There are NO active effects listed which either reduce or increase agility.

The +38 the mod "cleaned" from me is clearly wrong: http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7081/screenshot717.jpg The game obviously knows the agility is being modified.

I have no idea if the +5 security it removed was valid or not, but the two mods did agree on removing a +2 str, int, and willpower from somewhere.

» Mon May 16, 2011 4:58 am

Hmm. Ok. No idea what went on above, but that -38 agility wasn't in Jakben's last few saves prior to that one. So we'll ignore that and pretend it never happened

However, I am seeing a rather consistent trend so far with every character I'm loading up to check, including poor Jakben:

startquest statcleaner
--- Stat Cleaner starting
!!! +2 cleaned from Strength
!!! +2 cleaned from Intelligence
!!! +2 cleaned from Agility
!!! +2 cleaned from Personality
!!! +70 cleaned from Health
!!! +10 cleaned from Security
--- Stat Cleaner finished

Aside from the health and security this one got taken away, the other stuff is 100% consistent. Always taking +2 STR, INT, AGI, and PER away from every character so far. So I guess I conclude that something gave out its rewards in an improper manner? Or it's not accounting for something deeper? Especially since the UOP script is also taking the same attributes away. Something obviously wanted me to have those stats though.

» Mon May 16, 2011 11:52 am

Maybe another mod needs to be created to track what mod awards and penalizes stats.

I'd bet we could get down to some serious bug hunting with a mod like that. Print to console type thing so ConScribe could pick it up.

Also Arthmoor - have you tried seeing if setAV can be done on any skills to readjust them with this?

I'm wondering if disabling this mod then loading will allow the setAV to stick.

[edit] and the answer is no it stays even with this deactivated.

» Mon May 16, 2011 4:50 am

No, I haven't done any SetAV stuff on any of it. I was just seeing what the results were. My feeling is the rewards are all too consistent and point to some mod in the load order that gave them out to every last char I have. So I have no idea why they're being taken away. The health, who knows, another character had +220 health taken away, but that was probably legit since his health display shows 929/781 as an amount, which is clearly wrong.

Disabling this mod won't matter, it has to be manually triggered, and only acts on command, and it's effects are permanent. Heck, it's certainly useful enough as long as what it's doing is correct.

» Mon May 16, 2011 5:01 pm

What this does is set any script modifier to zero. There's no chance of bad math because I'm not doing any -- the amounts are only gathered for the report output. After cleaning, if the stat is showing in red and the -50 isn't accounted for by a drain on your effects page, then it's something the game recorded as damage to the stat. Possibly someone using ModAV2 in a mod because they'd heard that was safer (true for health/magicka/fatigue). This could well have been covered up by a +50 script modifier from somewhere else, which would have caused the stat to display normally and not get healed by any sources.

Thomas Kaira's advice is good -- the console version of ModAV adjusts the damage modifier, not the script modifier, and should fix this.

» Mon May 16, 2011 2:00 pm

Well ModAV did seem to work (finally) - I suspect if this was stat damage that was incrementally added. That would have been a huge impact to take at once and hard not to see.

Since there have been a plethora of realism-Immersion mods added and removed in the 200+ hours of life this character has had - almost no way of knowing what caused it.

I guess I should check again in a week to see if any more gets added since as it is right now I don't use realism mods with this character, except RF.

Can now finally move onto updating nGCD and playing this one again.

thanks.