I read an interesting interview recently about the current state of game modding. The interviewee claimed that game modding (except for mapping) was slowly dying due to the number of game engines and tools available for free. He said that the most talented and dedicated modders were increasingly using engines like Unity or UDK for their larger projects. Modding used to be the best way for aspiring game developers to get into the highly competitive business but today a lot of people choose freeware engines instead. One of the most popular engines is Game Maker which has a very feature rich and user-friendly editor, you can easily create a game with GM without any programming knowledge and very limited artistic talents. There are also engines/libraries like L?ve, XNA, LWJGL that require minimal programming experience to use.

Question 1: Are these engines/libraries/tools hurting the modding community?

There is no denying that it's becoming increasingly popular for indie developers to use these engines instead of modding another game. A lot of large modding projects these days are being created using the Crysis engine and the only reason it's so popular is because it can be used completely independently of Crysis, using no Crysis-assets or resources. It's actually a more similar to tools like Unity than a modding toolkit like the Construction Set for TES/F3.

Question 2: If you wanted to get into the game development world, would you start with a mod or would you opt for one of the numerous freeware engines instead?

The quality of those tools has grown exponentially over the past years, it's becoming easier and easier to create games, even for the layman. Is that a good or a bad thing for modding?

1. No.

2. I would start with a mod.

I don't understand why the alleged interviewee thinks its a bad thing for people to use freeware engines.

If the Morrowind and Oblivion communities are anything to go by, at least, no, I would not say that modding is dying, and I don't see why freeware engines would kill it. Modders don't necessarily do so because they want to create games, maybe they mod games because that's what they want to do, they want to take a game they like, and modify it in some way, maybe they want to play this game or that one, but want to change or add something to it, for them, freeware engines wouldn't change anything, because making games is not what they intend to do, at least, that's what I'd speculate, not being a modder myself, I can't really speak from personal experience. But even for those wanting to get into game development, no matter how easy a freeware engine is to use, I can't see using it to create a full game from scratch being easier than creating a house mod for Morrowind or Oblivion or something like that. With mods, you already have the core mechanics, you just need to change or add whatever it is you want to do, and while the difficulty of modding increases with the complexity of what you intend to do (Obviously a total conversion takes a lot more effort than just adding a new sword, for example.) usually, if you're just getting started, you'd just start with basic mods. At the very least, if I wanted to do such a thing, I'd start with basic mods and then move on to more complex ones, and if I'm interested, I can try to develop my own game after I've had some experience modifying other people's games first.

I use Source SDK, which I guess counts as modding Half-Life 2 Episode 2 (since that's the engine version I use). I'd use UDK or Unity since they're definitely better engines, but I can't model (yet) which means I'm stuck with default assets at the moment, whereas with Source I can use assets from pretty much every Source game. To be honest I'm a little worried about trying to learn too many engines, I've used UDK, Unity and Game Maker with limited success, and what with trying to learn 3dsMax as well it gets a little confusing remembering how to do certain things in each engine. In response to the OP, I think the freeware engines are, if anything, better than modding games since you're given more freedom.

No, modding is not dying. Decreasing? I can't say.


I would mod, but currently I'm studying to become game developer, so I have little extra time to spend for additional projects.
But as Dev, my engine of choice for indie game developer is Unity 3D.

I see no indication at all that modding is on a decline. Once a mod-friendly game is released, it seems like it will have an active community forever.

I found the 'interview' I referred to in the OP, turns out my memory failed me yet again and it was actually a blog post and not an interview. Unless the guy was interviewing himself. Which would be weird.

Anyway here's a quote from a RPS post, which is what led me to read the blog post and eventually create this thread:



http://www.blog.radiator.debacle.us/2011/04/death-of-mod.html

Mods emerged because it's too hard to make your own game? I seriously doubt that claim. Not all mods are total conversions, they're probably even in the minority. He might have been refering to TC projects specifically, but that should hardly represent modding as a whole.

It kinda makes sense though. Mods are essentially just a medium for artists and programmers, they use mods to publish their work. It's too hard to create a full game, even though most of us have great ideas for a game, and it's too easy just to publish pictures of your 3d artwork, or publish your software. That's the way I see it :shrug:

Q1: it is complicated. For the successful games (i.e. not crap like Silverfall) that do release construction sets, the modding community exists. Even games that don't have official construction sets, like Hellgate London and the Gothic games, have modding communities. Where there is a will, there is a way.

However, it doesn't seem like many games release powerful construction sets. I would hazard a guess that, even over the past 20 years, the proportion of games that release modding tools is small relative to games that don't have modding tools (either official or unofficial/community-made tools).

I wish that whoever holds the rights to old games would release the dev tools or source code so that modders can pick up where the developers left off. There are a lot of older games, abandoned by both the dev and publisher, that could benefit from bug fixes and modifications. That's one thing I find frustrating about software copyright laws - when the community cares more for the game than the dev (if they still exist) and the publisher. I think it could really spark people's creativity if such games were gifted to the public domain (with the stipulation that you can't then try to make money off your mods).

I wouldn't say it's harder to make a game, it just takes a lot more work than a mod - especially true for an individual.

For your first question I'd say that modding is definitely being hurt by all the free engines (which I'll refer to them as from now on, includes frameworks,libs,etc.). Modding isn't being hurt in terms of the quantity of mods, but rather the quality. It's fun to mod because you're not creating everything, but it's limiting for that same reason. The limits of modding is what pushes a modder/team to begin developing their own game(s).
In short, it's fun and relatively quick to make a mod, but if you want to have complete control and create just what you had in mind, you're all but forced into using an engine.

I think creating a Source mod would beat creating a Game Maker game, but overall I'd have to say it'd be more impressive to create an entire game than to create a mod.

I've been modding since 96, Doom, Daggerfall (unsuccessfully hehe), The Sims, Morrowind, NWN, Oblivion, and others. It's always been hard because the programs to do a good job are expensive, but more and more free decent stuff like Aviary and Blender are now coming out for free to help modders.

Hi Ex! :wave:

Hi Archie! :hugs:

Blender has improved a lot over the past few years, you should check out http://www.blendercookie.com/ to see some of the new stuff you can do with it. High poly sculpting and whatnot.

One thing that also harms modding is the current trend by publishers towards small content packs as opposed to full sized expansions. As these small content packs are a major source of revenue, publishers are taking more and more steps toward curbing the ability of modders to make a free alternative to the small content pack. Part of this push involves moving gaming onto console platforms where user-generated content can be prevented or controlled. PC game sales trend lower and lower each year, not because the consoles are so much better (because they aren't), but because the publishers are limiting access to the product.

Go check out your nearest game store. I was in GameStop over the weekend and I could count the number of PC titles for sale on one hand. Wal-Mart pretty much only carries World of Warcraft now. Best Buy has half of a shelf (not counting the shovelware section that has 4 shelves of Barbie games). Pretty soon the only option for PC games will be digital distribution which will further reduce the size of the market (not everyone has access to the internet, some people are opposed to DD, and the majority of people who play games only know what they see in the store). After that we can expect the number of titles released on the PC to decline since "no one buys PC games anymore".

Granted, this rant has a degree of slippery slope projection going on, but the motives and trends are pretty clear to me.

TL:DR
Modding is dying because it is being killed by publishers who want to sell you mini-expansions and stuff packs.

I think there's a bit of a focus shift from mod development to indie game development, but I wouldn't say modding alltogether is dying.

I would start (will with Skyrim :celebration:) modding and only afterwards start using freeware engines :shrug:

I do agree modding is slowly dying but will never be dead thanks to games like TES and FO.

:tes: :fallout:

Yep, that's what confusing about this thread. A game "mod" is merely a modification of an aspect of a game, not "creating your game from scratch" or "total conversion".
..
I think the guy in the blog is crying us a river since he doesn't feel special anymore?

1 - They're neither only hurting nor only helping modding. The first thing they do is to help people create, and the tool does not change whether you are a person that wants to take a known environment and enhance it through altered gameplay, more quests, or even your own stories as easily possible through NWN series modding tools, or want to do your very own thing.
Yes, that means some might rather use a new tool instead of building a total conversion, but the tools is not really responsible for the creator's decision.

2 - I would mod first, seeing how much more inclined to get to know you a dev representative would be if they see how much you can alter their very own game, maybe even further than they thought possible. If you have a general talent for game creation, combined with others or even on your own, you might get the same results if you have your own project.
I myself have modded in The Sims, NWN and of course TES series. So I'd say those generally more freeform games are what I would choose.