I personally feel that Staffs were not really that great in Oblivion (they were OKish as a Weapon in Morrowind). I never really used them, they felt more like a Magic Gun than a Wizards tool. I think the whole concept of the Staff needs to be rethought for TESV.

Firstly I would remove the Staffs own magical ability. It should be an amplifier to the wielders magic. For example, an unarmed mage fires a lightning bolt of 50 damage, using a staff that could get boosted to 60 or more damage, dependant on the staff. This would count towards all magic, not just Destruction.

Secondly, there has to be a tradeoff, boosted magic is a pretty powerful thing. This would come in the form of combat. You could, if you so choose, wield it with both hands and both attack and block fairly effectively, although this wouldn't be as effective as a Claymore or Battleaxe. The other option would be to hold the staff in the offhand while using a Single Handed Weapon, this gives you a bit more attacking power, but blocking would be seriously reduced.

Animation is also important I think. Its what can turn a 'thats pretty' into an 'OMG what did I just do?'. The staff would have to be the focus of the casting animation, and the boost it grants should be noticable visually compared to the stock spell.

I also believe that staffs imparticular should be unique to the player, and it should be something you stick with throughout the game. I was never a fan of 'this one is better than that one' when it comes to weapons and equipment in TES. I've always felt that I could never create the look or style of character I wanted due to the need to upgrade, particularly so as a Mage. There should be different styles available, with subtle pros and cons (damage, blocking ability, extra boosts to particular schools, etc) and it then relies on your abilities to improve in order to deal with tougher enemies. This way your staff becomes as quintessential to your mage as the schools they specialise in. Of course if you do get bored with a staff you can buy a different one, it wouldn't be a one time decision.

Thank you for reading, I look forward to reading any feedback and answering any questions.


Daiyus

I like that idea. in real life i know how to use a bo staff and i think that it should be more effective as a melee weapon too. Maybe it could be used to disarm people or just beat them into the ground

Staves have been pretty poorly done through Morrowind an dOblivion. I'd like there to be two seperate types, a magical one for casters, and a melee one for meleers.

The magic staff would give bonuses to int/will, or give spell attack bonuses, or give extra spells, whereas the melee one would be a good (defensive?) blunt weapon. I'd like there to be staves that suit the "Monk" style of play.

The dominance of staves as wizard tools is a pet peeve of mine. The magic staff is a giant cliche that many people support without needing any reasoning behind; just because "that's the way it always is." They were crummy in Morrowind, but when Oblivion turned their only function into big wooden guns, I was pissed. As far as I'm concerned they might as well make it mandatory that all wizards have beards and pointy hats, all of them, if they're going to do that.

They make no sense when you think about it. Why does being a stick make this object inherently more magical than everything else? Why does it have a higher "enchanting capacity?" I can take my stick with its effectiveness in magic, but god forbid I jam something pointy on the end and turn it into a spear, or that magic will just drain right out of it. A piece of armor made from more of the same material? Oh, no sir. Apparently all magic is allergic to curves or pointy objects and can only exist in stick shapes.

If they bring back Cast on Use and make enchanting more to do with the caster's power instead of the item, people can make a magic staff if they want to, but there's no reason to force it on people. The staff is one of mankind's oldest weapons and still features prominently in many martial arts; litter the world with magic staves if you must, but don't outright remove their capacity as weapons. Alternatively, if certain objects are inherently more enchantable than others (precious metals and gems seem to be for some reason, with amulets and rings made from a tiny scrap of the stuff being more magical than a whole metal suit), you could use them to enhance the staff and at the same time reduce its combat effectiveness, i.e. the commonly-seen type with a bunch of http://www.planetdungeonsiege.com/dungeoneers/modellibrary/equipment/thumbs/smite.jpg at the end. This is the only reasoning for a magic staff that makes sense to me, but it still means that a decorative sword should be just as effective for that purpose.

I don't really agree with a mage keeping 1 staff the entire game. That's boring. I'd get tired of the same staff. Change is good.
That's like, from a warrior perspective, immediately getting the best 2 handed weapon in the game at level 1 and just not having to upgrade the entire playthrough. No thanks, that's very boring.

This is a good point. I'd like to see way better staff uses. It seems they are, as mentioned above, wooden guns. But, as Rhekarid stated, is that yeah, why is the staff this expectation, or necessity of a mage? I want to be able to channel my vast amount of power, and knowledge into something right? So why a stick? How about an arrow? That would be deadly. Or a sword? I'd go so far as to say it isn't so unlikely for a mage to channel magic through almost anything. Obviously using a jug normally designed for ale as the carrier of your lightning magic isn't such a good idea, but if I want to shouldn't I be able to make by blade catch on fire?

I'd like to be like the gandalf in the 3rd lotr movie running around using a sword, and a staff, though. Because above all, the weaponry of a mage should reflect what their skills are. Resourcefulness, and dexterity of power.

I say bring back spears. Argonians need to be good at something again.

I like this idea. However the "magic gun" effect could still be an effect on special/artifact/rare staves.

Ah, mage gear; a subject near and dear to my heart. Here's what I'd do:

First of all, as has been said, there needs to be mage staves and fighter staves. Fighter staves lack the mage-centric bonuses, but deals higher melee damage to compensate.

As the OP suggested, I would move away from the whole 'magic gun' thing, and move towards mage staves that carry enchantments which passively boost the mage's spellcasting ability. All mage staves would reduce the amount of magicka your spells cost as its base enchantment, and then more powerful staves would carry other varied bonuses. The more focused the bonus, the more powerful it can be (for instance, a staff that increases the damage done by Destruction spells may increase damage by 15 points, while an equivalent-level staff that only increases the damage of fire spells might increase it by 30 points).

And while I love staves, I want to move beyond staves being the only mage gear, and include some other traditional mage symbols: wands, a crystal orb, ritual daggers, perhaps some ceremonial swords, stuff like that. Give mages a range of reasonable options to tailor what they look like.

I think so too, but they should only shoot destructive beams of light or something (Exceptions for lightning). Mostly because WOOD CAN'T SHOOT FIRE.

A while back I used to post threads like these, but my ideas for staffs were a little bit more generalized. Firstly, what's so important about staffs that mages need to use them all the time instead of any other random enchanted object (e.g. spoon, or fork in the case of morrowind, book [ala spellbook], gems, jewelry, "wands", magic weapons, etc). My original idea was in rethinking the entire magic system in general. Instead of forcing mages into one particular style, maybe the game could somehow distinguish between "battle mages" [i.e. mages who primarily hurl fireballs, lightning bolts, and typical "maximize damage" spells] and more academic mages who might know a greater repetoire of spell "effects", but have less firepower against non-spellcasters. The subtle difference could be something like this:

A typical battle-mage would learn specific spells and practice them repeatedly, increasing the effectiveness of those effects (in ES terms, the mage would only use a few spell effects regularly)

Mages of other specializations would use magic according to very specific tasks which need to be accomplished; this is sort of like the difference in the "spellcasting" and "termination" quests in Daggerfall. Maybe a mage would need to do something that would require manipulation of a daedric prince [for instance, talking to the daedra and somehow forcing it to do something for you that you cannot do].

Anyhow, without going into too much detail as to how the system would work, eventually the concept of "enchantment" has to be dealt with. I was thinking that instead of just defining basic things like how much damage you could do with an enchanted item, maybe enchantment could also effect how many aspects of the item you are capable of using at once. In this way, generic magic items could act like conduits for families of spells which would be impossible to obtain otherwise (sort of like an expansion of Oblivion's staff idea, only still allowing martial artist characters the use of staffs).

Even cooler would be if the spell effects were things which used the powerful computing power of the world-engine: instead of simple triggering between two activators, maybe an enchanted item would allow you to trace out a path.

Sorcerers and wizards have used their staves as tools in all sorts of ancient mythology, including the bible.

I agree that it should be used to boost, just like any magical item. I also think there should be spells that are available only when you have a staff. For example, an alteration spell that turns your staff into a snake. Or a restoration spell that turns it into a healing ward.

As for the unique looks, I think this would be solved if they just put more unique staves in the game in general. A lot more. Oblivion was severely lacking in that area.
But there should still be hundreds of the common, crappy wooden and iron ones

Oh yeah, forgot to address looks in my previous post.

One of my biggest pet peeves in Oblivion was the lack of selection in staff looks. 95% of staves in Oblivion were that damn tree-branch-I-found-on-the-ground model; and of the scant 5% left, half of those were simply a different model of tree-branch-I-found-on-the-ground. You then take out those staves that are some sort of head-on-a-stick, which don't appeal to me, and you're pretty much left with the Wabbajack, and the staves Order Priests carry.

So yeah, more unique staff types, and definitely a greater range of looks for generic staves. If swords and bows get to have steel, silver, glass, and daedric types, then staves should get steel silver, glass, and daedric types (while we're at it, let's expand that sentiment to katanas, dai-katanas, and sabers, which also got the short end of the stick in Oblivion).

Yes, but there are real-life reasons for this. Staves were often used as symbols of authority, being easy to carry, wave around, and recognize. Everyone knows who you are when you're the guy with a skull on his staff. Because they could be used as either weapons or walking sticks for the elderly, they can be simultaneously associated with wisdom and power. They are very symbolic objects, I realize this. In the TES setting, though, we have literal magic staffs and a method to create them, through enchantment, and creating actual rules and functions around them makes it harder to get away with "because that's how it always is." Not all mages are old or infirm, and with Oblivion's removal of them as weapons technically none of them could be said to fight with a staff. They're not all leaders showing their authority, especially since robes seem to be the symbol of rank within their organization.

I'm not asking to have anything taken away. If they want to have them as symbols of authority, or because a character is both old and a mage, or even because someone just wants a magic staff because they think a mage should have one, fine. What I dislike is for actual game mechanics to take something that's a choice (like an old mage enchanting a tool they'll be carrying around all day anyway) and making it a requirement. In Morrowind we had staves made from several of some material that, for no explained reason, can "carry" more magic than other objects made from more of that material. Oblivion dumped that system, but still gave priority to the staff in that they were the only item type capable of using magical projectiles anymore. Why? That possibly makes even less sense, compounded by their inability to do anything else.

It certainly makes sense that these sorts of staff would exist. One that exists as a symbol of authority will need some sort of decorative attachment to make it stand out. In a world full of magic, a staff meant for important figures would probably often be enchanted to be a literally powerful object, as well as symbolically. Mages in TES aren't exactly rare and are often young (or at least, not old), and handing out these sorts of staves en masse not only enforces a cliche but dilutes the point of their symbolism at the same time. I'm rambling, though. Mainly I just want the stick shape to stop being somehow more magical than other shapes for no reason. Leave people to their magic staff if they want one, just let me do the same thing with a sword if it fits the character better.

Well, first of all, there's no magic in real life, either.

And I don't think staves should be a requirement for a mage either. Other weapons, besides staves, could boost your magic skills and spells, too. Why not?

But also, why not have those special spells just for staves? Since they appear in literature and the like enough.

And the animation idea is cool, too. There's no reason to say, "no" to that, unless it means sacrificing some real content.

I think staves should simply revert back to doing physical damage but augment the caster's powers. To make them strictly projectile firing magic weapons made no sense to me.

I think we might need a skill for mages called Staff/staves, similar to the blunt weapon, blade skills. That way, anyone serious about using a staff can use one properly.

Ditto, and I like your suggestions as well. I also think the "magic-bazooka" is dump and that it should be rethought for TESV.

I think that you should be able to use the staff both as a melee weapon and a magical object. I like your idea of how the staff could be used as an amplifier, but I also think that each staff should have an individual magical attack.

I imagine that, let's say... You have a "Steel staff of Fire". It's a regular steel staff that you can use as a polearm weapon, but you can also use it's magical properties. Any firebased spell you cast yourself (i.e fireball) will be amplified by the staff. The staff will glow in a very cool looking fashion (because on of the most important things about magic is that it has to look cool).
You can also unleash the magical power of the staff itself (I imagine this will be a powerattack or somesort); you "charge up" the staff and an inferno is released around you.

Holding the staff in one hand... I think this will only fit in if dual wielding is chosen, but I personally don't think it will be.

Generally I feel magic needs and update. I think there should be more types of spells and new ways to cast them:


Attacks:
Regular Attack (click to cast spell)
A Power/Special Attack (click and hold to charge up your spell(Fireball becomes bigger fireball))

New spell types should also appear:

Flowing (click and hold to cast the spell. The spell will continue to "flow" until you release the button or your magicka runs out(think Force Lightning or Flamethrower))
Meditate (click to cast spell and enter a meditative state, you can now control the spell by thought alone, until your magicka runs out, you cancel, or are attacked.)
Proximity (click to cast a spell on any surface, the spell will then linger there to be activated later on. (think mine)
Drawn (click and hold to draw a line where the spell will take effect (create a firewall to block off your pursuers)

This could lead to many interesting variations of spells. The simple fire spell will no longer be limited to cast on target and cast on touch.
You can do all sorts of things, you can charge up a huge fireball to hurl at your enemies, you can unleash a deadly flamethrower, place a deadly mine, create a wall of fire, a circle of fire around yourself.

I also think that as your skills level up, your spells should be more effective. For example, your fireballs might will change it's course if your enemy moves, like a locked-on missile.
Spells could also have different effects depending on wether you use two hands or one hand, or a staff.

Wow, I'm getting off topic here, and it's late. But anyway, I like your ideas mate!

I think staffs should just be made into melee weapons, like they were in Morrowind.

And in addition to this On Use enchantments should make a comeback.

i hated oblivions staffs cause it moved away from the idea of self reliability. i agree with what you said in the original post about them being used to channel magic

I'm gonna go ahead and facepalm myself. How could I forget the Martial Arts use of staffs, as an ex Tae Kwon Do practitioner I'm almost ashamed of myself. This aspect of polearms should definitely be included in TESV.

As for using other items such as Wands and Books, I love it! Why constrain to the LOTR ideology? Look at some of the old magical faiths such as Wicca, they use almost anything that suits the individual, be it a crystal, gem, wood, metal, and in almost every design too, Wand, Staff, Sword, or just in its raw form. Having those options would really allow for personalised character building.

Hmm... Must be why my spells keep failing :shrug:

I'd like to see staves come back as melee weapons, but with different animations. In Morrowind it looked pretty stupid how I was trying to chop things with it. It should be held with two hands, and each end hits seperatly of the other, in alternating order.

Magic Staves should also be around. I don't see the problem. Though, not every single magic ccharacter should have one. As was said above, NPC's should only really have them as a symbol of wisdom and power. Apprentices in the Mages guild shouldn't have them.

I think staffs and enchantments should be powred by your magika. On hit your staff casts a firball but it drains ur magika instead. I got so sick of the4 staffs and weapons in Oblivion runnign out of cahrges and it was so exphensive to recharge them. If they used your Magika it would solve that problem. "But if your going to do that why not just cast spells?" the spells in the staffs and swords would be unattainable through normal means, meaning you cant cast them your self, that power is bound to the staff. I would also like to see magic wands. The only mage type weapon is the staff and thats kinda boring, especially if it cant be used in melee.

Actually.. I allready have magic wands. For my Quake III mod I made. Theres like 8 magic wands that are all different (Each gun in Q3) all you gotta do is put them in TES. Now why didnt I think of that before.

Here is my take on how they should work:

1. Bring back Constant Effect, Cast on Strike, and Cast on Use. Also, add a new type "Cast on Target" (which is essentially how the staves in OB work).
2. Bring back the innate ability for more expensive items to hold better enchantments
3. Make enchanted staves painfully expensive. So much so that only the most elite mages carry them.

Here is my reasoning:
As a mage, I would prefer to wield a staff which I can enchant with massive Fortify Magicka effect, cast on use. This way I can use the staff to channel Magicka to give me a boost to my reserves when in combat (and at a much greater amount than a Constant Effect staff would). I think that MW's staves with some minor adjustments would be the best system, opposed to the OB system where a mage was given a stick which casts spells... kind of ridiculous since mages also cast spells, therefore the staves do not complement the mages, but rather the non-casters.

I would like Staves to return as a Strength based skill with a good defensive ability. That way mages can use it for spellcasting and defending without having to level the skill excessively, and people using it for attacks can take on multiple enemies at once. Polearms should be a Speed skill.

I like the idea of using it as an amplifier too.

Endurance based? Something to fix the squishy mage problem