First and foremost, I do not want Skyrim to become another Assassin's Creed, nor do I want a Thief series equivalent. I had to state this first and foremost before anyone came in here and stated otherwise.

However, I do feel certain aspects of those games and others can be uniquely enhanced to tailor to those of us who like to play the shadier types of characters. This is not a topic to beg or request from the devs anything or demand it either. We are just privileged to even being able to play a fifth elder scrolls game, and I think a lot of people miss this point. If you don't feel privileged well then don't play the game, simple right?

Anyways, I wanted this topic to focus on what people find exciting and challenging about stealth based characters. You can vent about what you dislike, what you do like, or your dreams about what you wish to see in the future. Perhaps some ideas can be hatched here that can be looked at by future skyrim modders, the devs, or even for future elder scolls games. Who knows. I'll start...

What I love about stealth characters is the thrill of always being on the brink of getting caught, because usually getting caught can easily mean your death or failure of a quest, especially if you aren't prepared for that eventual event to occur. We've all encounted the "eye gem" in oblivion or thief that alerts the player to whether said player is visible or not. I find this a useful tool at times, especially with older games as they could not generate reallistic shadows and lighting. I find though, that as the games get better at producing lighting and shadows, this "eye gem" could actually disappear, and a player can rely solely on the shadows and depth of sight in the dark to determine if they can be seen or not. The thief game "Deadly Shadows" also allowed for candles, lights, and torches to be extinguished to maximize the darkness. Perhaps this could be added into the elder scrolls games to maximize the realism and atmosphere. I do not think, though, that such thief tools like water arrows and such should be used from the "Thief" series as those whould make the game too "Thief"-like.

Something from Assassin's Creed (and most other games in general) that we as players have wanted for a while but have been told wasn't possible with the gamebryo engine is the ability to climb ladders and walls and such to access higher places, like the roof, to either access a building from a different point or escape guards chasing us. This is actually all that I feel is really a strong point from Assassin's Creed at all.

My dreams for stealth in the future would be to combine all of these effects into one with some added content. For example, say you come across a house in Skyrim that you wish to break into. You can have the option to pick the front door, or force it open (not as good since it can make noise and alert people nearby and would be impossible if the door is barred). OR you can hop a wall or climb a ladder to access a locked window pane up higher, or even one someone carelessly left open Access through the window would be a fantastic addition, as you can lockpick it or break it (again not as good for the same reasons as forcing a door open) and climb through the window. Inside you can dim any lights lit by "using" them, without an alert householder there to see the change else they become alert. Now, say perhaps, you do get caught, and the alarm is raised and the guards are heading to the house. I think it would be great for the player to be able to bar the door or block it with furniture temporarily to buy the player time to escape, otherwise the guards can ram the door down eventually. Could you imagine the heart-stopping moments you might have if you have barred a door and are seemingly trapped inside?

Just a few of my likes about playing stealth characters and what I hope to see in the future. What about you?

Something that bothered me in Oblivion is A.I contradicting a stealth roleplaying char. As a ''thief'' I want to be able to escape a confrontative situation and just try hide somewhere. In Oblivion the A.I is telepathic and can see trough walls
There is indeed a mod for this, but I want to see it in Skyrim, with even better implementation

A mechanic that Assassin's Creed implements that not many other titles do is stealth in plane view or crowd stealth/blending in with the crowd. That might be an interesting mechanic in an ES game (not suggesting they implement it, just throwing ideas out there).

I have always loved a good stealth character and I have always found Oblivion to have stunted those types of characters. I hope for improvments

I always wished there were places where thievery was more rewarding, like castle vaults that require a lot of stealth and lock picking skill to navigate.

I want lockpicking, shoplifting, and pickpocket all wrapped into one skill called Theft.
You also think the social stealth was a strong point.

SHHH!!!! :ninja: :tongue:

Don't think hiding in plain sight would work here. Considering there have never been enough npcs at once to from a crowd reasonable to blend in with.

I always felt that if I am sneaky enough to get up behind someone, there is no reason why I should have to lose my advantage to kill them. If I can drill an arrow in their head silently, why shouldn't I be able to do the same with a melee weapon? Knock them out maybe?

There were in Daggerfall. If they decided to have the crowd to pull off the social stealth, I think they could make it work.

I usually use stealth to do sneak attacks.

I would implode if they actually had crowds and cities as large as Assassin's Creed while also having as in depth (important) NPCs as they usually do.

Another thing about stealth, I like to be rewarded handsomely for THINKING my stealth plan through thoroughly, meaning if I commit a perfect crime and there are NO witnesses/evidence of the crime, the guards shouldn't automagically know I committed murder or stole something... :toughninja:

Well, the named npc's in Oblivion almost always had something unique to say that just wasn't all that interesting. If they play up the useful npcs, I don't see why people would object to a lot of npcs you can only ask for directions and rumors from.

Top 2 for me would have to be sneak attacks, and pickpocketing/ thievery.

I think if those added NPC's were permanent npcs though, the dealings with those npc's could get frustrating/annoying. However, they might be able to get away with a random npc generator, in which every time you enter a city, different npc's appear, with a list of various dialogs to randomly be associated with, and the chances could change based upon time of day, week, etc. Some of these random Npc's could even be linked to having some random hint or clue to solving a quest you are working on. That way a person can be rewarded for talking to them. Then you can have larger crowds to do the stealthy blending with!

I also very much like that one quest in I think was the dark brotherhood's where you needed to kill that one man by making it look like an accident, where the head fell on him and killed him. I would love unique occurances like that in which I can have more options to killing a character, whether stealthy attack, poison, accident, etc. Contract killings are always fun for stealth characters, hehe.

I m not experienced on rpg games, but i know the classic titles on the genre and one of them is definitely Diablo and not Elder Scrolls, but i enjoy the game, first of all because it has the first person option and second because i can develope a stealthy character and do whatever i want with it, so i think is not bad to implement in the game elements from a game like assasins creed or thief, its a role playing game after all and you should make whatever character you like, but i believe that the first person view should be available only on stealthy characters because the battle system on first person perspective is really wrong, or maybe when you put out a sword the game automatically should turn in a third person because you can do much better and spectacular moves that way, i really believe Diablo is one of the games that they should take elements too

Stealth characters were seriously gimped in Oblivion.

Part of it was the leveling system: i.e. you get better at picking locks = now everyone in the world hits harder

Another failing was the leveled loot: The whole point of being a thief is to steal stuff you're not supposed to have. If you sneak around only get the same junk found everywhere, that's not roleplaying a thief, it's roleplaying a moron.

Then there's the AI (see my sig)...

I love playing thief/rogue characters, but they were definitely the most broken class in Oblivion, so I really do hope Skyrim sees significant improvements for stealthy players.

An alternative would be to go the Hitman route and put on a disguise when no one's looking. Which might end up making a bit more sense in most cases, because a guy in some fancy, expensive armor is not going to be hiding in plain sight anywhere. Hell, I'm still wondering how http://maxfreund.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/ezio_full_shot_11.jpg can blend into a crowd.

You are exactly right! The only real appeal to playing a stealth character in oblivion was sneak attacks, that was until you leveled up high enough where the sneak attack multipliers required 10-20 shots to kill an npc. I still firmly believe a sneak attack shot to the head or neck should be an instant kill, no matter the difficulty.

They could implment wo things easily. Better loot in castle vaults. And disguises. They already have disguises in FO:NV. You could take that and add to it by having your disguise linked to a sneak or speech skill. The higher the sneak the less likely someone will make you out as not one of their own. A high speech means if you do get noticed you can talk your way out of it.

Ahh, yes, if you say perhaps manage to get (using oblivion as an example) Anvil's castle guard outfit from somewhere you can don it and walk around the castle, staying away from more alert guards and such. And those outfits would only work for Anvil, not Bravil, etc. Some good ideas here.

I believe more guards should have more of a patrol as well, that way a thief would have to watch the patrol paths of a guard for a while before attempting to sneak past or lockpick a door. Most guards just stand there and look in a single direction, but even with a high enough sneak skill one could be dancing in front of the guard and steal something. However, if the guard turned away suddenly or had a "distraction" it could buy the thief time to do his deed. You shouldn't be able to steal something right in front of a guard, in decent light, and not be caught no matter what the sneak skill. Makes it more challenging.

YES